Talk:Freakonomics
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[edit] Arbitrary section header
I added the POV tag, as I feel that the passage "However, this can still explained by the fact that, in sumo, wrestlers are required to fight strategically for the entire course of tournament. One may lose a match the next day if he exhausts himself on his not so important match. So the statistical outcome of the match can be explained entirely by such behaviour rather than cheating." is in the article for no other reason than to disparage the book. The user who added these sentences, User:FWBOarticle, states that this counter-argument "appeared in [a] Japanese sumo magazine," but does not mention which magazine, link to said article, quote the article (or, if the article is quoted verbatim, the use of quotation marks), state when the article was written, or note whether or not the article was a direct response to the points made in "Freakonomics." I am not going to delete this section of the Wiki entry for "Freakonomics" myself, but I do not feel that there is a reason for it to exist. Kicking222 22:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I do not feel that any of this last part is appropriate for this article. I am pasting it here so that there is a carbon copy, but I feel that it is inappropriate and gives away some of the enjoyment of reading.
One striking example of the authors' creative use of economic theory involves demonstrating the existence of cheating among Sumo wrestlers. In a Sumo tournament, all wrestlers compete in fifteen matches. Those who win a majority of the matches receive preferential treatment; those who don't must perform humiliating duties, such as washing hard-to-reach places on the bodies of their betters. The authors looked at the final match, and considered the case of a 7-7 wrestler fighting against an 8-6 wrestler. Statistically, the 7-7 wrestler should have a slightly below even chance, since the 8-6 wrestler is slightly better. However, the 7-7 wrestler actually wins around 80% of the time.
I removed some of the pro-author slant in this article. Yes I liked the book, but there are some clearly flawed analyses in it as well. And saying 'Levitt's genius lies in...' is clearly POV. And not even generally accepted POV. Baiter 02:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
If this is not a 'discussion' page, then why does the tab say 'discussion'? If you must, file this under 'criticisms'.
I haven't read the book, but it occurs to me that the 7-7 wrestler will be much more motivated because he faces elimination, while the 8-6 wrestler does not, and so he will probably wrestle much more aggressively than his opponent. The record after 14 matches is a larger sample size, so it is a more accurate indicator of performance "skill" (or the ability to win), than is the outcome of any one match. Given the records, the two wrestlers are very closely matched, so the difference in skill is most likely small enough to be negligible. Given the nature of the sport, and given that they are both skilled wrestlers, the relative skill level may be less of a winning factor than motivation or aggressiveness.
The 8-6 wrestler is probably exhausted after having wrestled in the previous 14 matches. Also in general it probably requires more energy to win a match and to maintain an above average record. So compared to the 7-7 wrestler, the 8-6 wrestler probably endured a somewhat higher overall level of exertion during the earlier matches of the tournament, particularly since he faced possible elimination in at least 8 of the prior 14 matches. He is also probably relieved that he "made the cut" and that he does not have to "sprint for the finish line" so to speak. He is taking it easy, because given the tournament standings, he has very little to either win or lose.
IMHO, the statistic does not prove the existence of collusion or corruption. Nice try though.
- If you read the book, they address that. The next time the same pairs of wrestlers meet, the one who was 8-6 the first time has a significant advantage. In further meetings, it goes back to the predicted 50-50. RogueNinjatalk 01:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Question: Is it corrupt to publish false reasoning and take a book commission? Answer: No, not if you put the words 'freak' and 'rogue' in the title.
--Mikiemike 19:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] ISBN
ISBN of Revised edition should be added... I don't have the book. — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 17:19, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I've got the revised and expanded edition, and on the back two ISBN numbers are listed. The first is listed as "ISBN-13: 978-0-06-123400-2" and the second is listed as "ISBN-10: 0-06-123400-1". I'm not really sure which should be added to the article.
[edit] need clarification...
The authors attempt to demonstrate the power of data mining. Many of their results emerge from Levitt's analysis of various databases, and his creativity in asking the right questions. For example, cheating in the Chicago school system is implicated by detailed analysis of student's answers to multiple choice questions. But first Levitt asks, "What would the pattern of answers look like if the teacher cheated?" The simple answer - difficult questions at the end of a section will be more correct than easy ones at the beginning.
What exactly does the bolded line mean? Why does that happen? Is the wording just cryptic or am I just too slow to get it... Alveolate 10:43, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
