Talk:Flag of Argentina

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[edit] Revisionism

But it's a fact that the bourbons had those same colours, so it's plausible. The problem here (and with revisionism in general) is that it's hard to separate thruth from years of idealization, don't forget that during General Peron's goverment education exalted "patriotic / nacionalistic" feelings (much like other presidents / dictators in europe), the best way to do that was remarking militaristic succeses of the past. Belgrano wasn't a soldier, he was a lawyer, even though he was sent to fight, and that was that was remarked, "created the flag before a battle", not his work as lawyer (wich was as or more important).

Although Belgrano was a lawyer, his important role in Argentinian history was as a soldier and member of the First National Government. It is true and no one doubts it that the flag was first raised after a battle near the Paraná river, by Belgrano's order.

The Flag didn't exist in the May 25th Revolution, but the colors were already in use, and people saw them as a symbol of self-ruling. That is, not being ruled by Spanish juntas while Ferdinand VII was prisioner.

This seems non-neutral; it talks of "me", and thinks like that. Also, the Flag didn't even exist in the times of the May 25th revolution, so it has no sense that hypothesis.

[edit] Colours

The Colours of the flag is a little bit different from waht is stated in the article currently. The correct colours are as follows (source: http://www.manuelbelgrano.gov.ar/bandera_colores.htm ):

Official Colours (Pantone)
Web:
RGB
252-191-73 117-170-219 132-53-17 255-255-255
RGB Hexadecimal
FCBF49 75AADB 843511 FFFFFF
Textiles: 14-1064TC 16-4132TC 18-1441TC  
Graphics: 1235C or 116U 284C or 284U 1685C or 1675U  
Plastics: Q03021 Q30041 Q12024  

Source: [1]

I have updated the article accordingly. ButterBar (talk) 03:14, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

---

Where are the colour specifications in the current version of the article from? --ALE! 12:51, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ratio

I've just updated the flag using the data at http://www.manuelbelgrano.gov.ar/bandera_colores.htm, but it suggests a ratio of 1.6 (15:24), not the 1.5 (9:14) that this article claims is legislated. Has anyone a link to a copy of the legislation setting this ratio? I'll update the image's ratio if & when I find one. ¦ Reisio 23:35, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind - someone informed me at Commons:Image talk:Flag of Argentina.svg & it's been updated to 9:14. ¦ Reisio 00:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation of Aurora

Unless this is an official translation, I'd suggest a few changes...

  • Line 2: I'd use "soars"
  • Home country -> Homeland

And maybe a few others. What say ye? elpincha 16:52, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, there's more to it than that. there are also some literal translation gamatical problems. I think you are better qualified to fix it, so give it a go, without mercy. Mariano(t/c) 07:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Mmmhh. A quick one would be...
Alta en el cielo, un águila guerrera
Audaz se eleva en vuelo triunfal.
Azul un ala del color del cielo,
Azul un ala del color del mar. 

Así en el alta aurora irradial.
Punta de flecha el áureo rostro imita.
Y forma estela el purpurado cuello.
El ala es paño, el águila es bandera. 

Es la bandera de la patria mía,
del sol nacida que me ha dado Dios. 
Es la bandera de la patria mía,
del sol nacida que me ha dado Dios.

High in the sky, a warrior eagle
Boldly soaring in triumphal flight
One wing blue, as is the sky
One wing blue, as is the sea

Thus in the beaming dawn
The head in gold, like an arrow's tip
The purple-clad neck marking its path
The wings are cloth, the eagle is the flag 

This is the flag of my homeland,
Born out of the sun, [and] given to me by God
(repeat)
This is a little better, but not too good. Problems abound: the "estela/cuello" verse does not make much sense, and the last verse should imply that the flag (not the Sun) is being referred to. Also, I am a prose kind of guy. elpincha 18:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


I'd suggest to change "Punta de flecha el áureo rostro imita. = The head in gold, like an arrow's tip" for "like an arrow's tip the golden face imitates/copies".
Don't mind much about the "nonsesenceness" of the translation, considere that spanish is a richer language (I mean, it has many more adjectives and nouns that are used often / more words a native speaker doesn't need to seek in a dictionary) --Argentino (talk/cont.) 20:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, it is better. I'd also change to "Blue one wing, of the colour of the sky", "The arrow's head, like the golden face" and "From the sun born, that God has given me". Some things are hard to translate when you aren't sure whether they were high when they wrote it or what. "Punta de flecha el áureo rostro imita." doesn't make much sence to me in any language... Mariano(t/c) 06:52, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
The one that is "high in the sky" is the eagle, and my personal interpretation is that [the eagle flies like] the tip of an arrow, imitating the golden fage [(the sun)]. It is a very eliptical pice of poetry, maybe too much. --Argentino (talk/cont.) 18:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
I made a few small changes, not relevant to the meaning but maybe to the prose and style. I do like the "Blue one Wing...." change that Mariano proposes but I would leave "from the sun born..." as "born from the sun" while changing the rest of the sentence ("God has given me", not "us") Sebastian Kessel Talk 18:12, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Thinking twice about it, I realized that "del Sol nacida" and "que me ha dado Dios" are two different sentences. It doesn't mean "nacida del sol que me dio Dios" as the current translation implies. Maybe "Born from the sun, given to me by God" (with the comma) would make the translation more precise.
Sebastian Kessel Talk 18:15, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Merging information

Does anyone mind if I put the "list of Argentine Flags" or something like that, wich has the provincial flags to this article, like in the german featured article? --Argentino (talk/cont.) 19:21, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it's best to have them separated, is it is now at List of Argentine flags. The link is accessible through the {{National emblems of Argentina}} templete at the end of the article. Mariano(t/c) 09:01, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Wall Street Journal article

There was a Wall Street Journal article the other day on debates on the shades of blue in the flag. Apparently, it's actually a contentious issue. I started to add something about it, but I felt like a big phony because I know almost nothing about Argentine politics or history. So I thought I'd leave it to somebody a bit more knowledgeable. The article is here. —Chowbok 17:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I didn't read the Wall Street Journal article but I know there is a controversy, too. JonnyLate 23:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

http://www.manuelbelgrano.gov.ar/bandera_colores.htm
http://www.iram.com.ar/Normalizacion/departamentos/oe.asp?mOrg=-2147483046&nOrg=SubComit%C3%A9%20Tejidos%20(IRAM%20-DEF)
¦ Reisio 00:57, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ornamental flag

Until when is this the main flag? I've noticed on the FIFA World Cup that the ornamental flag is used for earlier instances. --Howard the Duck 07:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, it was on 1978 - can somebody give the exact date? On World Cup pages, the ornamental flag is displayed - not the one with the sun. --Howard the Duck 07:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)