Talk:Drag king

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[edit] Female bodied

Resolved.

Whoever changed "female bodied" persons to "female identified" does not know too much about Drag Kings. Of those Kings I know (and that's quite a few) only the smallest minority is female identified. -- AlexR 18:26 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

If that's the case then they're transgendered or transsexuals; drag kings are lesbians who do drag. Exploding Boy 14:07, Apr 11, 2004 (UTC)
I'm terribly sorry, but you are wrong. Many Drag Kings are transgendered and not female identified, but still call themselfes Drag Kings. In fact, some people define Drag Kings as "female bodied but not female identified" people; although I think that's carrying it a bit too far. Also please remember that some words have slightly different definitions in different places, although the one given covers most of Europe and North America. I checked, did you? -- AlexR 14:26, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I checked, but you're right; words do have different meanings in different places. Exploding Boy 14:28, Apr 11, 2004 (UTC)

I am a trans woman. As a genderqueer dyke, I sometimes like to perform as a drag king. As a MTF person, am I female-bodied? That is debatable. I am certainly female-identified.--142.166.101.192 17:25, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

That is not exactly the majority of drag kings; all kings I know (and that are quite a few) define as the one thing that drag kings have in common that they do not identify as women and/or females. So I think that this paragraph needs some rewording; after all, trans-people doing drag after transitioning are such a small minority that I wonder whether it is really appropriate to say something that does not apply for the vast majority of a group because it does apply to a very small minority; at least without explanation. And that's a transguy speaking who has two dresses in his wardrobe, too.
Oh, and BTW, do you think you could get yourself a username? Not even a mailadress is required, and it is a bit odd if one has to call people "142". -- AlexR 01:15, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I think that "Drag" includes those that mask their identified gender, hence the delineation of Bio-Queens and Kings. Clearly one may be born a man, transition to female, and then perform in drag as a male. However, if you identify as a woman, and perform as a woman, you are a Bio-Femme. I do think that the origins of this term began prior to the increased popularity of gender transitioning, but can be applied to women that were not necessarily born as women. ~Kat AKA J.J. Cox

A drag king, just like drag queens can be any gender or sexuality and the article should reflect that. having stated that the article should also address some of the unique meanings of drag kings in reference to dyke, trans and the larger LGBT cultures. Benjiboi 23:18, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Resolved.

This article makes some bold statements about what is and is not a "drag king" without citations. This, and the above discussion, show that the underlying bias needs to be removed. - brenneman{L} 00:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion was two years ago. The issue seems to have been worked out since then, and the definition of "drag king" currently in the article seems pretty neutral and inclusive to me. I don't see any "bold statements" that would require citations, and I don't see any need to label the article as POV. If you have some specific problem with the definition given in the article then please feel free to explain, but for now I am removing the POV tag. CKarnstein 05:36, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AtKM

Resolved.

There way quite a bit of material for "All the King's Men" so I trimmed it a little bit. - brenneman{L} 00:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drag King history

Greetings. I noticed some items like Elvis Herselvis, Lea Delaria and the 1st Drag King Junior Contest are missing. There is a fairly comprehensive Drag King timeline online at [1] that s a great read, if nothing else, but gives an insider's chronicle to touchstones of interest to this article. I don't have time right now but a researched version using some of that history would greatly help the article and potentially grow into one on it's own. Benjiboi 23:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] International Drag King Community Extravaganza (IDKE)

International Drag King Community Extravaganza (IDKE) needs it's own section and links to each year's contest, also more photos from any kings would be helpful. Benjiboi 20:28, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

The external links need to be cleaned up a bit. Given the article's subject I think most of them are valid and basically non-commercial, however, for those looking to actually learn more it's helpful to separate which links are for actual resources/support maybe those could saty under "External Links" and all the rest to list under something like "Links to Current Drag Kings."

I've done some article clean-up including the links section removing all the personal ones and sorting the rest into resources and king groups. Benjiboi 22:20, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Further, I'm concerned about the unencyclopedic nature of the links under "Drag King groups" - Wikipedia is not a directory of performers, and other articles do not have such links. Why does drag king? --David Shankbone 17:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
My initial goal was to stop every performer from adding their link and slow down the tide as it were. If we are now going to throw out all the groups links then we should provide a reasonable alternative like we link to a good drag king resource which has a list of king groups, if you want to be added to the list that's the place to do it. Benjiboi 00:59, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
On further reflection I feel the way we currently have it is fine for now. People looking for information on drag kings will find the article to be a good starting resource and the list of king groups is not terribly large nor would I expect it to grow exponentially. I feel an alternative would to grow a section about king groups and try to sort out which ones are notable for inclusion. I feel that's a ways off. Benjiboi 14:28, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drag King Buddy Kent

"Buddy Kent was still gorgeous at age 70. She was even cuter in the 1940s, when she played the Club 181, located at 181 Second Avenue on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, and the Moroccan Village, on 8th Street in Greenwich Village. Back the, downtown nightclubs like these, under the protection of the New York mob, featured shows with gay girls and boys performing in drag. * * * “It was home,” Buddy replied, “and we had the best protection in the world from the Mafia. They ran everything.”" The above is a report from a New York newspaper and may be worth researching and incorporating. Benjiboi 00:05, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drag King Groups

[edit] Drag king groups

[edit] Australia

[edit] Europe

[edit] North America

[edit] Canada

[edit] United States

This list was removed, in my opinion, without consensus, and I think it should be restored. A list of drag king groups seems notable and verifiable and adds to the reader's understanding of the subject. This is also information that wikipedia can cover with a worldwide focus that no one else seems to be doing. It's easiely maintainable and potentially can grow into its own article. The reason most performance related articles don't have a similar list, IMHO, is that group format is more emphasized in drag king culture. Benjiboi 03:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

  • See WP:EL and WP:Notability. We aren't the yellowpages, and we aren't the pinkpages. We are an encyclopedia. If these group are meritorious of their own articles, then create them. Then we can begin doing lists, such as List of drag queens. Until then, this is an unencyclopedic version of trying to include every group out of some touchy-feely idea that everyone who puts themselves out there is worth noting. That's not WP:V. --David Shankbone 03:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Disagree but not in the mood to bicker. Plenty of lists include entries fo folks who don't have an article written on them. Since you seem to be an authority here I'll leave you to it. Benjiboi 17:12, 2 February 2008 (UTC)