Talk:Dollar

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Number of strokes Whatsup with one and two strokes thru S? So the $ symbol in for non-US dollar and double stroked S is for US dollar? Can someone explain? -pedro


There are better explanations based in medieval Iberian manuscripts about the origin of the dollar sign. I will look into this and get back here. But everything here is folk-etymology. Evertype 18:05, 2005 Mar 15 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Yen

From yen:

The yen was originally written as the same way as the Chinese Yuan (圓 pinyin yuan2). Modern Japanese writings use a character (円) which is different from the one used in simplified Chinese (元). The Latinized symbol for the Yen however, is identical to the one for the Yuan, although the PRC tends to use one crossbar instead of two.
Yen literally means a "round object" in Japanese, as the Yuan in Chinese.

In the article:

In China, base unit of the official currency Renminbi is called "Yuan" (元 or 圆 , with a symbol ¥). The "yuan" is, in fact, a colloquial form of the word "dollar". Spanish dollars were widely circulated in China in the late 19th century. When China adopted its the first national currency in 1914, the base unit was called "Yuan" , which means "dollar". A "yuan" at that time was a coin containing exactly the same amount of silver as a Spanish dollar.

--Error 23:56, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The word 元 or 圆 literally means "round" does not mean it is the origin of the name. Coins minted by the Chinese were round, but they were not called 圆 , they were 錢 。 圓 , or its proper name 銀圓, refers to Spanish silver dollars which were counted, in contrary to 銀兩 (silver tales) which were weighted. In 1866 the silver coins minted in Hong Kong were called in Chinese 壹圓 , in English "One Dollar". The "Yuan" 元 or 圆 is just another translation of the "Dollar" . Not sure about Japanese Yen but it is possible that the word has the same heritage. 24.205.90.226 17:32, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] created a new page for the dollar sign languages

created a new page for the dollar sign languages, like the other languages. There are many uses for the sign that don't have anything to do with the dollar.

[edit] Yuan/元

In China, base unit of the official currency Renminbi is called "Yuan" (元 or 圆 , with a symbol ¥). The "yuan" is, in fact, a colloquial form of the word "dollar". Spanish dollars were widely circulated in China in the late 19th century. When China adopted its the first national currency in 1914, the base unit was called "Yuan" , which means "dollar". A "yuan" at that time was a coin containing exactly the same amount of silver as a Spanish dollar.

Who the hell comes up with this crap? The word "yuan" (元) predates any Spanish influence by several hundred years. Like, say, the Yuan Dynasty? Hell, the use of coins in China is BC-era by itself. You expect me to believe the Chinese waited a couple of thousand years to name them?

Yuan/元 is a measure word for small round things among a host of other meanings. Coins, being small round things, invariably got enumerated with yuan/元. Further, claiming that this is the colloquialism is utter nonsense. The colloquialism for money's measure word (the primary unit, not the "dime" or "penny" equivalents) is kuai/块. So the article has managed to get everything--absolutely everything--wrong on this point.

Needless to say it's getting deleted. --MTR (严加华) 05:20, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Not really. The word "yuan", like any Chinese word, has multiple meanings. The word "元" was not created for the meaning of dollar, it was just adopted for that purpose. Although it is true that the word "圓" means round object, that is not origin or the reason why it is used to called the currency now being used.
After the Ming Dynasty, the Chinese have been using a dual currency system. For large amounts, the unit was silver tales (銀兩). The Chinese did not have the habit of minting gold or silver into coins like the Europeans. The silver was rather minted into bars and measured by weight. 兩 means "tale" is a weight unit. While the currency for smaller trades was copper coins minted by the royal government, and the unit was by enumeration rather than weight. But one single coin is counted as one "chin" "錢"。 Coins stringed together (that's the purpose of the hole in Chinese coins) is called a 吊 or string. "圓" was NOT the unit for counting the indigenous coins minted locally by the Chinese. At the same time, trades with the foreign nations were carried out using Spanish dollars, silver coins which were called 銀圓 , (probably because they are round) and they were enumerated, counted as "銀圓" 。
The use of 元 or 圓 as a unit of currency in China did not happen until 1866, when the Hong Kong government at that time started minted silver coins carrying the same amount of silver as the Spanish dollars and called them "Hong Kong One Dollar" 香港壹圓. It was also the first time when the word "圓" or "元" was used as unit of currency, that took the meaning of the word "yuan" or 圓 out from its original meaning of the Spanish dollar. But the character "yuan" "圓" or "元" still means, exactly, "dollar".
In China, the first basic national currency adopted in 1914 was a silver coin equivalent to a Spanish dollar, that was also called "壹圓" or "one yuan". Nicknamed "袁大頭" , this unit was supposed to be the national unit for currency, but it never totally replaced silver tales for book-keeping purposes. It was 1934 when the Nationalist government passed laws to abandon use of "tales" as the unit of currency, and all accounting must be done with yuan.


I think the original article had it correct. It is just there're more history on the word 圓 and currencies in China than you are aware of.

24.205.90.226 23:25, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] the table

I changed around the table. Really, only the code of it. I couldn't get the padding thing to work correctly. Could someone correct it? I hope whoever it may concern enjoys the reworking. It's easier to deal with now. -- D. F. Schmidt (talk) 07:58, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] the town of Dollar?

Is there any relationship between the town of Dollar, Scotland and the currency?

The town of Dollar nestles at the foot of the Ochil Hills is central Scotland and is famous for its school "Dollar Academy" which was inagruated in 1818AD by a wealthy merchant (John McNabb).

The town is also known for 15th century Castle Campbell that sits at the top of the Dollar glen between two 'burns': the burn of care and the burn of sorrow which are known for waterfalls and huge slab like rock vennels. The castle was known as the "castle of gloom" before an act of parliment in 1489, approved by James IV.

Nope, as a proud Scot I am very sorry to report that that is unlikely. As a (kind-of) Swedish-speaker, it has become my understanding that "dollar" came from "riksdaler", but I have just looked at the Eng Wiki article, and I see that there is a more plausible explanation: Swedish riksdaler: "The daler, like the dollar, was named after the German thaler."
I have no idea of the etymology of Dollar, Scotland, but I would hazard a guess that it is from either Pictish or Scottish Gaelic.--Mais oui! 19:16, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Signo pesos

In most Spanish-speaking countries, the symbol is known as signo pesos o signo peso (Peso sign), and not as signo dólar (Dollar sign). Considering also that the sign is in fact the Peso sign and was copied for the US Dollar, I don't think that the article should treat countries like Argentina, Cuba, México or Uruguay as countries that use the Dollar sign.


[edit] British Dollars

In pre-decimal coinage, 10 shillings was known as a 'dollar' in slang and 5 shillings was sometimes known as 'half a dollar'. It should be noted that Australian, New Zealand, Jamacan and possible other commonwealth dollars were created from their local 10 shilling denomination. All they did was than create a 'cent' as one hundreth of ten shillings (dollar). Britain decimalised making twenty shillings (sovereign) the main unit instead of ten shillings (dollar) and creating 'new pence' as a hundreth of twenty shillings (pound)

There were coins actually officially named dollars.

I quote from http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/dollar.html

'In 1797, owing to a desperate shortage of silver coins, the Bank of England issues altered foreign coins from its reserves. Half a million pounds worth of Spanish dollars issued by King Charles IV were over-stamped with a small engraving of George III. The re-issued coins, with a value of 4 shillings and 9 pence, attracted ridicule. "Two Kings' heads and not worth a crown" was one witticism. (A 'crown' in this context meant 5 shillings, "half-a-crown", sometimes colloquially known as "half-a-dollar", being a common coin before decimalisation in 1971). A cruder, description was "the head of a fool stamped on the neck of an ass". The issue failed because over-stamping was also applied unofficially to the plentiful supplies of light or base Spanish dollars.

A few years later a more successful issue of dollars was made by the Bank of England. In 1804 Matthew Boulton, the business partner of the steam engine pioneer James Watt, was employed to erase completely the existing design on full-weight Spanish coins and stamp them as Bank of England Five Shilling Dollars. '

These may be worth incorporating in some way.

Support - I think it's worth adding. Stephen.frede 00:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dollar Slang

Have added "cheese" and "cheddar" to the list of slang words for dollar. "Cheese" is used in Jay-Z's "Big Pimpin," "Cheddar" can be found at http://www.thesource4ym.com/teenlingo/

Alright, fair enough. I have added this to the list of sources in the article.Image:Weather rain.pngSoothingR 07:21, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


  • French Americans used to refer to the Dollar as douleur. I thought that might be a fun bit of useless trivia for this article, but wasn't sure where to put it. See:Francis_Vigo. Mingusboodle 12:01, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, this is an encyclopedia, not a trivia collection. If you have a source and can work it into the text in some way (i.e. other names for the Dollar), feel free to add it. — BQZip01 — talk 14:53, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] merge

I completely agree with the merging of that section into this page. I'ts like having two articles for the same thing. 63.231.145.101 21:35, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] redirect

Talk:Dollar sign used to redirect here. I couldn't see a reason why, so I removed the redirect and copied this text there. Ingrid 03:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Symbol

I have deleted the section on Symbol and added a "See also" to Dollar sign. The information that was here under Symbol was contradictory to that in the larger article. I suggest resolving any conflicting theories over there. The larger article also (partly) answers pedro's question above on number of strokes in the symbol. Stephen.frede 00:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colour of US dollar

There is a comment in the section on synonyms and slang that the US dollar is green on both sides. However, US dollar bills are grey on the front, though they have a small amount of green printing (serial numbers etc.). I am deleting the comment. Stephen.frede 21:40, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the world's most widely circulated currency.

Can you provide a citation for this? If you mean the currency with the largest circulating money supply (in physical notes and coins), you may be correct, but the Euro may also be a contender, or even the Chinese Yuan. TiffaF 15:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yea, this should be changed since the euro is about to overtake it. [1]

By the end of October the $759bn-worth of US dollar notes in circulation was only a fraction ahead of the value of euro notes, converted at exchange rates at that time.

But since October the euro has risen strongly against the dollar and this month the value of euro notes has risen to more than €610bn, or in excess of $800bn at the latest exchange rates. That level is unlikely to have been beaten by the greenback. Richard Cane 01:59, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Comparison between the euro and the USD, which is a current event, should be written into United States dollar, not here. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 05:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE:Edit summary

Actually that should have read "this is already covered at United States one-dollar bill".--Isotope23 19:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What we can hope?

What we can hope? Although it is not to wait for a wild sale of dollars in the international markets, which is clear is that the green ticket will follow weak by a good short while. Whereas the United States continues I decide to continue spending in the war in Iraq and the internal security, and with it increasing their deficit fiscal, as well as, mattering more than what exports to satisfy its increasing demand - enlarging its commercial deficit -, the dollar will continue staggering in the international markets. And the investors, before little the attractive interest rates that offer the American titles, will continue looking for refuge in more profitable values. Reason why every time will be more difficult that the dollar recovers the title of the safest and attractive currency of the markets. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.92.96.154 (talk) 03:38, 28 February 2007 (UTC). Sc

Which countries dollar are you talking about? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.165.109.58 (talk) 22:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Yiddish Word 'Shmako'

... does not exist. I'm getting rid of this invented etymology. Bws2002 21:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History: Thaler - Zahler - zahlen - German for "to pay"

The connection between Thaler, Tal and valley does not sound very logic. Due to a consonant shift from t to z, it is much closer to the German noun "Zahler" that comes from the German verb "zahlen" which means "to pay". I would suggest a correction of this paragraph. Opinions? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.139.136.147 (talk) 15:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Two bits worth

"the peso, worth eight reals (hence the nickname "pieces of eight")" Did this lead to the phrases "four bits" etc. ? 82.38.112.107 07:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC)mikeL

  • the etymology of "bits" predates the real or peso. American dollars used to be made of pure silver. Quarters and dimes and such weren't always available to make change and people used to cut the soft silver dollars into eight equal segments. Though technically illegal, but unenforceable, this practice continued through the first half of the 20th century. BQZip01 16:19, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tax Dollars

I live in England and occasionally hear the phrase "tax dollars" in a UK-based context. I guess "tax pound sterling" doesn't have the same ring to it. I can't find any sources and am not sure if it is notable. --Joshtek 18:05, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't that just tax money or tax revenue? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 22:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
AFAIK tax revenue, tax income and tax money are probably the most proper terms, but not the only term in use. --Joshtek 18:57, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
All are simply a way of phrasing "taxes." — BQZip01 — talk 05:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rafael Company

Now: The use of the Spanish dollar and the Maria Theresa thaler as legal tender for the early United States are the reasons for the name of the nation's currency.

No correct because this: "One such piece is the lion daalder of the United Netherlands. This coin, nicknamed the “dog dollar,” was circulated by Dutch traders throughout the world including the New Netherlands colony, present-day New York. Coins such as this are almost certainly responsible for the origin of the word “dollar” in our language." (A Brief History of the Morgan dollar) http://www.anacs.com/

New Text: The use by Dutch traders of the lion daalder of the United Netherlands (nicknamed the “dog dollar” in America), and the legal tender of the Spanish dollar in the early United States, are the reasons for the name of the nation's currency.

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:NT1.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 16:23, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge out

Some of the historical details regarding the USD should be merged out to History of the United States dollar. JIMp talk·cont 07:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)