User talk:DHN/2007/Dec

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Contents 1 Tambourine 2 Ớt hiểm 3 Bui diacritics 3.1 Stub cat 4 Diacritics 5 RE: American English 6 Nguyen-Thien Dao 7 VN Scouting 8 Diacritics 9 Chayote 10 Chè 11 Ao ba ba 12 Diacritics 13 Death anniversary 14 Lá dong 15 Idiom 16 vọc 17 Ume 18 Alternate? 19 Sáo 20 Baccha 21 Rượu đế 22 Harry Potter 7 23 Bánh quế

[edit] Tambourine

Any idea where "trống prôvăng" comes from? The only thing I can think of is that it's named after Provence. Badagnani 04:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

So it's a name that isn't ever used by Vietnamese for this instrument? I found it online a few places. If you find the real term for tambourine, I guess I can substitute it. Badagnani 05:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Fascinating. It turns out that the French used to call the tambourine "tambour de Basque," and the Basques don't live in Provence, so you're right, the translation is probably faulty. But, then again, the terms used for things in Vietnam today often differ from the ones used in the mid-20th century, and those differ from the ones 50 years earlier, under French rule. I see that some of the instruments are called by their European names, like "sao piccolo" or "trong timpani" instead of using the more "cumbersome" Vietnamese literal translations. Badagnani 05:49, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ớt hiểm

Just watched "Green Dragon." Not bad! They mention something called ớt hiểm and I wonder what the literal meaning is: "dangerous chili pepper"? Badagnani 08:26, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Any idea about this? Badagnani 03:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

So if "dangerous pepper" is the literal translation, what's the vernacular meaning of this? Is it "chili pepper," or "red chili pepper," or "small chili pepper," or "birds eye chili pepper"? I don't know exactly what range of chilis can be called by this term. Badagnani 04:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks; this species (Capsicum annuum) takes a lot of forms, including big ones like ancho. I wonder if, in Vietnamese usage, it typically refers to the small, slender, pointy one sometimes called Thai pepper (either unripe or ripe). This looks to me like the one most typically used in Vietnamese cuisine, and the one called by the name ớt hiểm in the "Green Dragon" film. Badagnani 04:51, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bui diacritics

I'm trying to determine the diacritics for Tony Bui and Timothy Linh Bui. So far, I can see that the family name should be Bùi, but I also run into someone named Bùi Văn Phú, and I'm not sure if this is the same person. Badagnani 05:23, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

For example, in this search.

[edit] Stub cat

The only reason to use the stub cat is because he is ethnically Vietnamese, was born in Saigon, and stubs exist to attract those with a particular expertise to the article, to improve it (i.e. we want editors interested and skilled in Vietnam-related subjects to find the stubs and come fix them up). There's no other intent, such as implying that this individual has any other relationship with the modern nation-state of Vietnam. Badagnani 05:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there a flag in that stub? I didn't know. Yes, that would be offensive. I see the flag with the yellow-and-red bars flying at the government-in-exile building in Little Saigon (Orange County) as well as at many Vietnamese cultural events that still take place around the country. Badagnani 05:31, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diacritics

Can you add diacritics for the Don Duong character in the cast list at We Were Soldiers? Badagnani 06:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you add diacritics for "Dau An Cua Quy" and "Co Lau" in Don Duong? Badagnani 08:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, can you add diacritics in the film titles at Tran Anh Hung? Badagnani 23:23, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: American English

Just to clarify next time in your edit summary you may want to add "Use American-English on American orientated pages". As you would know Commonwealth-English spelling is used on English and Commonwealth pages. So not to confuse other editors. :) - Mike Beckham 06:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nguyen-Thien Dao

Hi, can you add diacritics at Nguyen-Thien Dao? Badagnani 00:08, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, can you check the template I've just added? His name is complicated. Badagnani 00:19, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Weird that he hyphenates his family name and middle name, and gives his given name in all caps... That is confusing. Badagnani 00:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you add diacritics for the three compositions listed at Nguyen-Thien Dao? Badagnani 00:32, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VN Scouting

You may also be interested in Fédération Indochinoise des Associations du Scoutisme. Chris 04:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diacritics

Can you add diacritics to Bai Bang? Badagnani 06:21, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chayote

A friend just told me they call chayote "su hào" in the South. The Vietnamese Wikipedia calls su hào kohlrabi, and chayote "su su." Is this another example of southerners and northerners using a name for a different food and applying it to another one, as is the case for several other foods? Badagnani 19:11, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Interesting: vi:su hào gives kohlrabi and vi:su su gives chayote. This difference in nomenclature should probably be reflected in all relevant articles at vi:WP and en:WP. Any idea what the "hào" means in this context? VDict doesn't really help in this instance. Badagnani 22:36, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chè

Chè needs an article and I'm trying to determine the etymology. Do you know what the original character is? Maybe 𤯊 or 茶? 𤯊 doesn't seem to be in most dictionaries so I wonder if it might be chu nom. Badagnani 03:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The choices are here. Badagnani 03:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

So it's an indigenous Vietnamese term (phonetically), though some chè are similar to Chinese ones such as tong sui? I guess my guess was correct, that 𤯊 is chu nom, and not a Chinese character? Badagnani 03:58, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you please check Chè? Badagnani 03:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Does chè đậu đỏ ever contain rice in addition to the azuki beans? If so, is it glutinous or non-glutinous rice? Badagnani 05:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you know the Vietnamese name of this thing? Badagnani 05:52, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Might it also be chè ba màu or are these the same thing? Badagnani 06:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, can you add anything to Chè? I think I've done the best I can with it. Badagnani 06:09, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I think the interwiki was right; it's a dab page and gives the "tea" definition and "sweet soup/pudding" definition. Badagnani 06:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

“

Tên gọi của một số món ăn trong nghệ thuật ẩm thực Việt Nam, được nấu chủ yếu từ gạo và/hoặc đỗ (đậu) cùng với đường và một số nguyên liệu khác để tạo hương vị. Xem thêm bài Chè (ẩm thực). Bánh chè là tên của một mảnh xương tròn trước đầu gối, giữa hai mối nối xương đùi và xương cẳng chân.

”

Not sure what the second one is talking about.

Badagnani 06:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you determine what species khoai lang bí is? Badagnani 07:36, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks; this sounds like what they call "kumara" in New Zealand or what is (mistakenly) called "yam" (the Thanksgiving food that "sweet potato pie" and candied seet potatoes is made from) in America. I assume that the regular "khoai lang" has a sort of whitish, off-white, or very light yellow flesh? I just saw "The Vertical Ray of the Sun" and the characters appear to be eating the orange ones in a couple of scenes. The characters claim the rain makes them want to eat these.  :) Badagnani 08:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Wait, is the flesh yellow or orange? Badagnani 08:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, why did they change the final vowel, then? -- Badagnani (talk) 18:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ao ba ba

I asked if it was worn only in southern Vietnam because the final sentence still says "the costume's natural presence in almost every aspect of Vietnamese life." So there's a contradiction there. Perhaps the equivalent costume worn in central and northern Vietnam could be mentioned. I find it hard to believe that central folks didn't have a similar silk outfit? -- Badagnani (talk) 22:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Diacritics

Can you add diacritics for the actors' names at The White Silk Dress? Badagnani (talk) 23:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death anniversary

Hi, I think we need an article on the Vietnamese death anniversary (when you celebrate the day of the death of your grandparents or other old relatives). Is the name mệnh nhật (from Sino-Vietnamese 命日)? It may be best to put all the East and Southeast Asian holidays (which maybe come from Confucianism) in a single article.

Or is it ngày giỗ or bữc giỗ? Badagnani (talk) 03:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Is that holiday for Hùng Vương or for the Hung "kings"? Badagnani (talk) 04:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

What about bữc giỗ? Badagnani (talk) 04:18, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I found this term online, given as an alternate for ngày giỗ. Is any variation of this term an alternate for ngày giỗ? Badagnani (talk) 04:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you check Death anniversary? Badagnani (talk) 04:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It's the third link here. Badagnani (talk) 04:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I've fixed it. My apologies for an old error. Now that I'm living in Mongolia, my chances of learning Vietnamese appear slimmer than ever.

Bathrobe (talk) 04:54, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've also stolen đám giỗ from your talk page, with a rather vague note as to what it is. Hope you don't mind!

We used to eat choko as kids. We hated it!

Bathrobe (talk) 05:51, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You're quick, User:Bathrobe! Both of you, read this. It explains a lot. Badagnani (talk) 04:57, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, we need the translation of this. Anything you'd add at Death anniversary? Such as typical dishes prepared for such days? Badagnani (talk) 05:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a source for the chayote thing, I think we should add it. It's called "Buddha's hand squash" in Chinese. Badagnani (talk) 05:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you find a source for the eating of bánh ít too? Badagnani (talk) 05:38, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

In Japan it's definitely Buddhist. Is this some kind of crossover from Confucianism? Bathrobe (talk) 06:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I've read that it's Confucian (the idea of honoring one's parents is very important in Confucianism, and Confucianism was adopted in East Asia hundreds of years earlier than Buddhism was). Badagnani (talk) 06:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Regarding scrambled eggs, in my work at Moo shu pork I've found that dishes with scrambled eggs are prepared in Chinese Confucian death anniversaries, and the term "dan" (egg) is always avoided because in Mandarin slang "dan" is a (mild) curse; thus, the term "Sweet Osmanthus" is used as a substitute for "scrambled eggs." Badagnani (talk) 09:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lá dong

Hi, can you determine the species for lá dong? vi:WP has Phrynium placentarium but there's very little on Google under this spelling. Badagnani (talk) 06:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

But vi:WP has Phrynium placentarium. You're giving me Maranta arundinacea. They're both in the genus Marantaceae but different species. Which is right? Is it possible it is an "arrowroot" relative called Phrynium placentarium rather than Maranta arundinacea? Badagnani (talk) 06:37, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Idiom

Can you check this entry? Badagnani (talk) 03:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

This one too. Badagnani (talk) 03:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] vọc

Need definition for vọc. Does it mean "peck"? Badagnani (talk) 04:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Any idea about this? Badagnani (talk) 22:25, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, the context is this expression. Does this help? Badagnani (talk) 22:37, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ume

Is the "ume" (Prunus mume) "mai" or "mơ"? Badagnani (talk) 04:19, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate?

Is this an alternate version of the expression?: "Chủ vắng nhà gà mọc đuôi tôm." Badagnani (talk) 22:40, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I can't get the second-to-last and third-to-last words. Badagnani (talk) 22:44, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

There are some hits for this version. Maybe "mọc" and "vọc" are onomatopoetic imitations of a chicken pecking? Badagnani (talk) 22:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, it does sound very strange. Badagnani (talk) 22:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

A friend in HCM said vọc means "to mess up." Does this search help? Badagnani (talk) 04:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

My friend said if I got into her computer and messed things up, I'd be "vọc"-ing. So maybe "hack" is a good translation. If a chicken got into a pot full of shrimp, I don't think I'd use the term "hack" or "touch," though. Badagnani (talk) 05:11, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, so that leaves us wondering what the chicken is doing. Chickens must have been "vọc"-ing with shrimp for centuries before computers were invented. Badagnani (talk) 05:20, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

See this new entry. Badagnani (talk) 05:23, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

My friend said "chủ vắng nhà gà mọc đuôi tôm" comes from people who don't know the spelling just guessing and saying this saying however they think it should go. I.e., it's wrong. Badagnani (talk) 05:25, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Check the discussion at Talk:Moo shu pork; maybe you'll get a laugh. We've found that the current name "wood whiskers pork"/"wood shavings pork" was originally "Sweet Osmanthus pork," a euphemism for "scrambled egg pork." But "Sweet Osmanthus pork" used to be written with characters meaning "rhinoceros tree pork." Other versions of the dish's name include "alfalfa pork." Badagnani (talk) 05:30, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sáo

Question: in the etymology of Sáo, I had thought, due to the similarity in pronunciation, that the Vietnamese name for this flute came from the Chinese word for the old vertical bamboo flute (and also the ancient panpipes), xiāo (簫), but that's pronounced "tiêu" or "tiu" in Vietnamese, according to the Nom Foundation. Wiktionary gives "sáo" as an alternative for "dí" (笛), which I find very unusual, and I don't know how that happened except through confusion between the two flutes, because the two flutes are different (the "dí" is horizontal, like the sáo, and the "xiāo" is vertical). So, any idea of which Han Tu lent its name to the Sáo? Or did the name originally come from 簫 and was corrupted to 笛, which then assumed the third pronunciation of sáo? Badagnani (talk) 21:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

So what is the character 哨? I've never seen this character used to refer to any musical instrument. As you probably know, the sáo is nearly identical to the dizi, and the third alternate pronunciation of 笛 is "sáo." That makes it much more likely this was the character originally used for the Vietnamese flute (as it is used in Japan for the Ryuteki and in Korea for the Dangjeok). Badagnani (talk) 23:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

It says 笛 can be pronounced "sáo" at the Nom Foundation, and also at [vi.wiktionary.org/wiki/sáo Wiktionary]. Badagnani (talk) 05:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

The entry you sent me is very helpful--but the only thing it doesn't explain is what the character originally used for "sáo" is. Badagnani (talk) 05:39, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

OK, you say that, according to the Nom Foundation, the Nom character is 𠿀 or 𥳓, for the specific musical instrument. So does that mean that "sáo" never had a Han Tu? That seems strange, as it's so similar to the 笛, Korea and Japan use the same character, and "sáo" is one of the pronunciations of 笛. For now, I'd like to analyze the constructions of those two Nom characters. Badagnani (talk) 06:20, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baccha

Thanks for your constructive edits. Along the same lines, you may be interested in this link. It has a slightly different pov from the other source. Haiduc (talk) 14:00, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rượu đế

Any idea of the etymology of Rượu đế? Badagnani (talk) 02:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks--wow, someone at vi:WP did their homework! Is ruou de exactly the same as ruou lau, then? Badagnani (talk) 02:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

See if I put everything in right at Rượu đế. One question: are you sure rượu gạo only refers to distilled liquor? It sounds as if this would be a fermented one, like sake. Are you sure all the other names are distilled, not fermented? Badagnani (talk) 03:07, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

You're sure it doesn't come from "đế quốc" and that the "weeds" thing is folk etymology someone stuck in the article without checking? Badagnani (talk) 03:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Distilled ones are like vodka (boiled and pure alcohol steam condensed) and fermented ones are weaker, like beer, wine, or sake. Badagnani (talk) 03:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't quite understand the "NXB" or the "H.2003," but I put it in--see if I did it correctly. Badagnani (talk) 03:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Does this help to find the plant? Badagnani (talk) 03:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Harry Potter 7

Thanks! That information is really useful. By some coincidence, I'd just added the Chinese titles today, so now titles for all but the Japanese version are up (although I'm dubious about the Mainland title). Bathrobe 03:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you again for the information! I've been away for a bit and am going away again. I'll try and get the Vietnamese and Taiwanese translations (both already published) as soon as possible.

I'm rather curious to know if the online version is the Nhà xuất bản Trẻ translation. If the translation was published on 27 Oct, how is it that the serialisation began on 20 Oct?

Bathrobe 01:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll check Undesirable No. 1 and get back to you!

Bathrobe (talk) 02:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It's Kẻ Phá Rối số 1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bathrobe (talk • contribs) 03:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bánh quế

Hi, is bánh quế a traditional form of bánh that should be added to the bánh article? Badagnani (talk) 04:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)