Talk:Cutty-sark (witch)

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Why is the title hyphenated? It is inconsistent with the rest of the article. 203.214.112.124 12:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment The article Cutty sark is an already well established page about the ship. I believe the article is hyphenated following the original quote from Tam. I'm removing the move template (since it can't be moved to an existing page), please feel free add another request if another title is suggested! --Lox (t,c) 20:56, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

This article is about Burns' Cutty-sark, which should most correctly be hyphenated. If you look in the poem itself, Burns does not hyphenate "her cutty sark" (= her short nightdress) but does hyphenate when the phrase is a nick-name for the girl. And that's the point - this article is not about two Scots words but about a literary figure and her later cultural ramifications. The varying spelling (both hypenation and capitalisation) throughout the article is therefore not inconsistent but is making the proper distinctions. --Doric Loon 15:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Pun

Possibly I'm being thick, but can someone explain in what sense the phrase "Cutty Sark is a Freudian slip" is a triple or quadruple pun? It seems to me to be a simple pun on slip (= 1. lapse, 2. undergarment). To look for more is surely squeezing a joke beyond limits of its humorous productivity. Anyway, does this joke belong in the article? It doesn't elucidate the cultural constellation and seems to me to be nothing more than a quick laugh for its own sake. --Doric Loon 15:45, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree and have removed Another reference, "Cutty Sark is a Freudian slip," is a rare quadruple pun and is unclear in origin. from the article. If anyone wishes to revert, please feel free to do so, but please explain here! --Lox (t,c) 16:17, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll give it a go: --Tysto 22:58, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

  1. Revealing slip of the tongue as described by Freud, the literal meaning
  2. Slip garment arousing sexual feelings described by Freud
  3. Slip of a girl arousing sexual feelings described by Freud
  4.  ??? (nautical slip? pun on "ship"?)
  5. Profit!

[edit] Merge?

I suggest merging this article with Tam o' Shanter (Burns poem). Thoughts? Guinnog 18:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Disagree. But I noted my thoughts on the other page (Talk:Tam o' Shanter (Burns poem)), and to keep the discussion in one place, anyone else should put their opinions there rather than here. --Doric Loon 20:58, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Disagree also, a Cutty sark is something which exists separately from Tam o' Shanter (Burns poem) and therefore deserves an article of it's own.

[edit] Other Uses

There is a list of "other uses" here, but it seems to me that this belongs on the disambiguation page. Should this be merged? -Leevclarke 13:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cutty-sark

The cutty-sark is not a character in the poem, it is an article of clothing worn by Nannie. Tam 'congratulates' the cutty-sark for enabling him to see far too much of Nannie, who had worn the said garment from an early age when she was smaller. Upon reading the poem if people think I have misinterpreted the lines please let me know. --Edmund Patrick 20:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I reverted your change in the text before I noticed you had written here - normally I would answer discussion first. I think that is ingenious, and of course poetry can be interpreted may ways, but I am pretty sure that is not the normal reading. To me the name cutty-sark, in line 189 is his form of address to the girl for whom he knows no other name. (As opposed to line 171, where it is clearly a common noun.) The capitalisation and the hyphenation both support this. --Doric Loon 20:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First "recorded literary usage"

The earliest recorded literary usage of cutty sark is by Dougal Graham in c. 1779 (the year of his death): "A cutty sark of guide harn sheet, My mitter he pe spin, mattam."

Clearly not, since Tam O'Shanter was written in 1790 and published in 1791. Removed. Flapdragon 11:29, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Err... 1779 is before 1790. Or am I missing something? --Mais oui! 16:37, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Complete brainstorm on my part. Apologies all round. (Perhaps there should have been a reference to DSL though, as well as a translation; OED has nothing earlier than the Burns citation.) Flapdragon 23:03, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Brainstorms are a perfectly normal part of daily life I am afraid ;)
I did consider bunging in yet another DSL ref, but it was already on one of the other 3. --Mais oui! 07:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)