Talk:Crisco

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Contents

[edit] Other uses

I'd say it's rather questionable whether the "other uses" of Crisco should be listed here (I'm referring to the reference to fisting) --Keflavich 00:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Maybe if someone could name actual sources for that...

Any object or substance has multiple sexual uses to a creative individual. I think it's obvious that this other use is mentioned here only to shock and offend so I'm removing it.

Do not deny information because YOU feel it is not proper.

If you'd like to include this usage of Crisco, you'll have to provide sources. That said, it would be difficult to think of any type of fat that hasn't been used as a sexual lubricant. I don't think this is especially notable. janejellyroll 04:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
And by sources, I mean those of the reliable variety. Please see WP:ATT. Just because you think something is so doesn't mean it belongs in a Wikipedia article. janejellyroll 04:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll mention this seeing as the question was asked. I don't agree with the way the mention was made before (rather blunt, seemed written just to shock), but there is very definitely an association with crisco as a sexual lubricant amongst gay sub-culture. For example, you can find it on the shelves of the shop Prowler (a gay sex shop in soho) next to ID lube and KY (And before you ask, re your "creative individual" comment, the shop stocks no other such products. It just seems that there's a set of connotations that go with this particular brand, I dunno why.)

Not to mention its association with naked Twister NTK 05:18, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Here in Germany Crisco is almost completely unknown except as a sexual lubricant. You can find it in gay sexshops, but not in the supermarket. German gay men find it very amusing when they discover Americans actually cook with it. Angr 17:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I've re-added the fisting reference, although toned it down a bit to avoid offending the housewives that might be looking for recipes! The fisting reference definitely needs to be included though, because it is a huge thing within the gay community especially. I've also added some important info about safety, because not everyone realises that you can't use oil based lubricants with condoms... 82.148.206.32 14:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

  • That lends new (and sufficiently gross) meaning to the joke in the next section. Wahkeenah 16:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
  • And whatever happened to the good old days, when Germans invaded Poland instead of each other? Wahkeenah 16:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

In fact, it reads like an instruction manual. Yeh, this really improves the quality of this page, yeh, sure. Wahkeenah 17:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thousands of gay men use Crisco for sexual activities. I hardly think it's a reference just for the sake of it. Sorry if it offends your sensibilities, but you probably shouldn't be using the internet if it bothers you that much. Have reinserted the reference, toned down (yet again) in the hope that your delicate eyes can cope with it. 82.148.206.32 14:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Yeah, how Puritanical, thinking you can go somewhere on the internet and not read about ass fisting!
  • Nothing shocks me. However, it was and is uncited, as to both the alleged use and the alleged popularity. I have added a couple of equally popular and equally uncited usages. Wahkeenah 21:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, reference added again and two citations added. Just Google "fisting" and "crisco" before you throw your toys out of the pram again. Stop being so f*cking childish and let it rest. 82.148.206.32 09:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Yeah! Google it, dammit! What do you all think Wikipedia is, some sort of "information repository"?

[edit] Picture

Can someone post a picture?? I think this article definetly deserves a photograph.

[edit] Brown Company

I am currently doing a research project with a few classmates of mine on the Brown Company Research and Development. The Brown Company is located in Berlin, New Hampshire, USA. According to my research, Crisco was originaly Kream Krisp, invented by the researchers of the Brown Company. However, the Brown Company sold their patten to the company that now sells Kream Krisp as Crisco. Kream Krisp was also originally made with hydrogenated peanut oil. Kream Krisp or Crisco was invented in the late 1800s.

Heres a quote from a "Brown Bulletin" in 1919 on the creation of Kream Krisp (Crisco), "Peanut oil is a mixture of two liquid compounds and one solid substance. These two liquid components can be made firm and hard like the first by adding hydrogen. This hydrogen can be added in but one way. That is, by the help of a catalytic agent. Pure finely divided nickel is the best catalytic agent. It picks up the hydrogen forced in contact with it and hands it to the oil, which alone is unable to pick up hydrogen. The meeting between the peanut oil and the hydrogen takes place in a machine called a capsule, a tank about six feet in diameter with a curved top and bottom. The catalyzer is laid in a filter bed in the center of the machine, leaving a space above and one below. The peanut oil is recieved here in tank cars, stored in tanks of a million pounds capacity each. From these it is fed into preliminary tanks in the mill and heated before being forced into the space above the catalyzer in the capsule. The hydrogen is collected from the cells in the chemical plant, stored in an ordinary gasometer, such as is used for city gas lighting systems and supplied to the upper space in the capsule under pressure. The peanut oil and hydrogen, both beeing brought into the space above the catalyzer under pressure, are forced thgrough it to the space below. It is during this short poeriod that the catalyzer picks up the hydrogen and hands it to the oil, the liquid parts of which are thereby changed to firm, solid fat." The bulletin goes on the explain the cooling, deodorizing, and canning process. This information is from an original document that can be found at the Moffet House in Berlin, New Hampshire. If you have any questions my team would be glad to help, email me at sbinette@inbox.com.

Thanks.

[edit] Fisting reference

Ok guys, can people please stop removing the reference to fisting. Crisco is used by thousands of gay men for this precise purpose, as a quick search on Google will verify. I don't understand why people keep removing it. If it really shocks you that much then may I suggest that a separate article is created for the fisting reference and linked off this article under "see also...". However, I was under the impression we lived in the 21st century and could be a bit more liberal and mature about this. Clearly there's a few people who still need to see a bit more of the world beyond their computer screen. 82.148.206.32 08:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

  • You are pushing your own personal agenda by continuously forcing this gross and offensive stuff into this article. It demeans both the article and wikipedia itself. And enjoy your German ass-fucking while you can, because when Islam takes over Europe, you'll find out the true meaning of "whacking off". Wahkeenah 13:18, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
    • So you're saying... what? That we should remove from Wikipedia all references to fisting and any other sexual practice you find slightly offensive? It's not a personal agenda. I just think it's a useful reference for people who are looking for information about Crisco for that purpose. God only knows where your comment about Islam came from, but I think it just about sums up your attitude. 82.148.206.32 14:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
      • It came from a news report I read awhile back that predicted that Europe would be Islamic within 50 years. And you are pushing an agenda. Wahkeenah 17:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Also, in addition to the fringe activity of fisting, you should note that Crisco has long been used for garden variey penis in anus sex. Tommypowell 16:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Thank you for your continued contributions to the credibility of wikipedia. Wahkeenah 17:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The ways in which Crisco can be used as a lubricant are not at all relevant to this article. That it can be used as a lubricant probably is relevant, but there's no need to start enumerating the ways, or we'll get completely off topic. Mangojuicetalk 17:22, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

If a million people use it as a lubricant for anal fisting, six hundred thousand people use it as a lubricant for anal intercourse, ten people use it as a lubricant for dresser drawers, seven people use it as a lubricant for bulldozer gear boxes, and three people use it as a lubricant for microtomes, then it's disingenuous to say that it can be used as a lubricant for anything that needs lubrication, and there's no relevance in a discussion of just what. See Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Undue_weight. I do not have references to back up the assertion that the real use of Crisco as a lubricant is overwhelmingly as an anal sex lubricant; and I don't know whether that is even true; but the claims made by others above suggest that it actually is true, and verifiably so.
If it's true and verifiable that anal sex lubrication (per se, not just as a subclass of lubrication in general) is a major application of Crisco, then the article should say so; and just talking generally about lubrication would not adequately address the issue. And if you do mention any kind of sex in connection with Crisco, then you'd better mention that Crisco is incompatible with latex, because not doing so is irresponsible given Wikipedia's position as an authoritative-sounding voice. Some other anonymous person (Edit: turns out it was Wahkeenah, not an anon) successfully discredited my mention of that point by linking it with the obvious silliness about inflammability, so that the anti-vandal folks deleted both. I'm not going to try to fix it, because it's clear that saner heads will not prevail in the current climate.129.97.79.144 21:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
You're making a general argument that doesn't hold up. The question is not only whether the information you're talking about is verifiable (I'm sure it is), but whether or not including it in an article about Crisco makes sense. Crisco's use as anal lube is not an important topic we must cover in regards to Crisco. I'm sure people recommend lubing up with all sorts of household products: this is actually discussed at personal lubricant, and I'll note that Crisco isn't even mentioned there either specifically or categorically. If info is neutral and verifiable it probably belongs on Wikipedia somewhere, but it's important to put it in the right place. The info you're talking about belongs at Personal lubricant, not here. Mangojuicetalk 00:32, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
My point (I'm also 129.97.79.144, but am not any other anon) is that there is apparently a significant population that uses Crisco - not just any slippery substance but Crisco in particular - as a lubricant for anal sex - not just any activity that requires a lubricant, but anal sex in particular. And in some places (see the comment above about Germany) Crisco is the major lubricant for anal sex, and the major application of Crisco is as a lubricant for anal sex. Someone who wants to know about that (for instance, because they want to know why everyone started giggling when they suggested Crisco as a possible lubricant for something else) would not be adequately served by merely being told that Crisco is one of many slippery substances in the world. However, the point I actually care about is only that if it's mentioned as a sexual lubricant, then the incompatibility with latex should be mentioned too. Leaving out the anal sex mention is against Wikipedia's mission; but including the anal sex mention and not the latex mention, is actually dangerous. 216.59.230.140 01:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
The crux of this argument is that people are going to come to Wikipedia and search for Crisco to see how it's used to fisting/anal activities/etc. As I said before, I've got no problem with it being in a separate article or, indeed, under "personal lubrication". However, I think it should still be linked off this article so that people who come here looking for that particular information can simply click the link. Maybe that's a sensible compromise, although I still don't see why it can't remain as a couple of lines within this article as well. 82.148.206.32 08:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Crisco is sold in the lube section of plenty of online sex shops aimed at gay men if anyone would care to search for it.[1][2][3][4][5] I'll admit to a great degree of kinkiness than the average person (and a lesser degree of heterosexuality), but I've never used Crisco for sex. Still, the first time I ever heard about it was as a lubricant used primarily for fisting by gay men, not a cooking ingredient. I think the same goes for a lot of other Europeans.
Peter Isotalo 23:03, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure it works as works as axle grease, too, along with endless other usages. So what? Citing this specific use is for only one reason: furthering the "gay agenda". However, feel free to cite Crisco, and other lubricant you can think of (including axle grease), on a page that actually focuses on homosexual behavior. Wahkeenah 09:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't really care what Crisco thinks about this. I'm sure they're appalled and don't want anything to do with this, but there's no "gay agenda" here; I'm not a member of the pink mafia, and the lovely thing about Wikipedia is that these things can be included in articles if you have references for it. Now stop being so obtuse and find a better reason to weed out references to gay culture. You got your reference, now find a better excuse to remove verifiable info.
Peter Isotalo 10:21, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I've requested comments about this issue. In the mean time, leave referenced information in the article or put up a POV-sign. Removing verifiable information while going on about a "gay agenda" is not kosher.
Peter Isotalo 10:28, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
If you're going to insist on posting this nauseating non-standard usage, it's only fair to cite other things. Wahkeenah 10:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I can't recall objecting to any other uses, can you? I'm not a stranger to the idea that it's far more common as an ink remover, even. But you should try to be a bit more sensitive about these things. Winding up about "gay agendas" and telling people to keep their "German ass-fucking" to themselves while waving the specter of Islamic sexual conservatism about isn't exactly civil. To me it looked more like closet homophobia, even if that wasn't what you were trying to purvey. I'm glad we found a compromise, though.
Peter Isotalo 11:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm old-fashioned, and I think things belong in their proper place. I have no problem whatsoever with having an article about ass-fucking that's as explicit as you want it to be. I do have a problem with putting that info where it doesn't belong (as per wikipedia policy)), and the Crisco article is just such. But this exercise has been educational, as I have found that the internet has many references to various household uses of the product. For all I know, the makers of Crisco might be just as offended about their product being used for tar removal as for anything else. And I still say that info doesn't really belong in the article. But if you're going to have a citation for ass-fucking, then there needs to be some balance to show that that's only one of many non-standard uses, rather than singling it out. Wahkeenah 11:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

A summary of the debate may be found at the bottom of the page.

[edit] Request for Comment

Standard cautions on civility and assuming good faith.

[edit] Text under dispute

from the section Non-cooking usages or Gay culture (heading seems subject to change):

As a sexual lubricant, it is long-lasting, cheap, and does not exude a strong odor. However, as with some other non-water-soluable lubricants such as Vaseline, it cannot be used with latex, i.e. condoms. It is used by certain parts of the male gay community in North America and Europe.[1]

  1. ^ AIDS Vancouver Island, retrieved on May 6 2007

[edit] Statements by editors involved in the dispute

(summary, from POV of each editor)

  • I don't think any non-standard uses belong in the article, but as long as a number of documented uses are in the article (hence the section name change), as opposed to singling out just the one (which is obvious agenda-pushing), then I'm OK with it as it stands at this moment. Wahkeenah 11:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Position

[edit] Comments

  • I agree with Wahkeenah that the current revision looks pretty good — perhaps this is already nearing resolution. The editor representing the other side hasn't weighed in yet so I reserve further comment for now. / edgarde 11:48, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Like I said earlier, I'm glad we found a compromise. I have no further quibbles. Peter Isotalo 08:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Summary

Editors came to a compromise on their own. RfC withdrawn. / edgarde 09:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.


[edit] Non cooking uses

This section was removed with the comment 'this isn't "Hints from Heloise"'. I'm not all that sure what exactly that means, but the section is well sourced and I see no reason for its removal, so I readded it. Darksun 21:26, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

It's not "wellgdfsdfgsdfgsdfgdf sourced" at all! The sources given include a blog, a personal page, a message board, and a commercial site, none of which are acceptable under WP:RS and WP:V. wikipediatrix 21:33, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what you're talking about. The main sources were a well established sexual health organisation, a news site, a civil war reenactment society. Yes, the reference about pans was from commercial sites, but there's nothing wrong with using commercial sites as sources as long as doing so doesn't compromise NPOV, which from what I see, it doesn't. Certainly, the reference about the use as a sexual lubricant has already been debated and had an RfC, you're going against consensus by removing it. Darksun 11:01, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to readd the bits that I feel are properly sourced. --Darksun 14:19, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The source for its usage as a lube is down, so I've added a {{fact}} template. --jonny-mt(t)(c) 08:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Another reference was added, and I added a web archive link to the original reference. Darksun 22:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Personal lubricant section

I suggest this section: "As a sexual lubricant, it is long-lasting, cheap, and does not exude a strong odor. However, as with other oil-based lubricants such as Vaseline, it can degrade latex and is unsuitable for use with latex condoms.[2][3]" be moved to the personal lubricant page; it reads more like an advert for it here. It's already listed as a personal lubricant in the list above. I would do it myself but I haven't figured out how to add a section to the table yet and copy the links and sources... DACS42 (talk) 13:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

This information seems worth including, and is sourced. Could you suggest another wording that seems less like an advertisement? / edg ☺ ☭ 16:16, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Changes in Fat Content" text

I dont think the text "According to the FDA website, "Food manufacturers are allowed to list amounts of trans fat with less than 0.5 gram (1/2 g) as 0 (zero) on the Nutrition Facts panel." belongs here; its not on topic, whereas I have no doubt it is correct it implies a criticism about the reported trans-fat content of Crisco. However: It's quite useful information on its own. Does anyone have an opinion? DACS42 (talk) 13:39, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

This seems to merit an explanation, since the the language "Zero Grams" is used despite a trans fat content of >0 grams. Without the FDA information, this would imply false health-related advertising, which is a more serious implication, and incorrect. Is there a different wording you would prefer that still conveys this information? / edg ☺ ☭ 16:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)