Talk:Cognac (drink)
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[edit] Discussion header
The map over the Cognac region (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carte_du_cognac.jpg) isn't exactly pretty. The not-exactly-perfect hand-drawn arrow and the JPEG artifacts makes it look like really unprofessional. Could someone make a replacement? If it was up to me, it should be removed until a new one is ready...
The movie 'Clue' has some mention of cognac at least a couple times in the movie. I should dig out my DVD and review it and add that to the pop culture section.
[edit] Size of Area
Something wrong with the map or the size of the appelation areas stated in the text. 13 hectares ? 4 hectares ? I dont think so ! Do they mean 13 square kilometres maybe. Eregli bob 12:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, since an hectare is only something like 2.47 acres, the author of the article is far, far off. Why hasn't it been changed? _ The above comment was made almost four months ago. [P. Meier] April 12, 2007
[edit] Fungus
The section on how cognac is made mentions a black fungus that grows in the cellars, but doesn't say any more about it. Is the fungus believed to contribute to the flavour of the beverage? If not, is there a reason why it is mentioned?--Srleffler 04:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Blending additives
There is a gathering momentum to dismiss cognac as a sophisticated product as the number of blending additives allowed by law are enough to artificially manipulate the product into one that bears no resemblance to the original distillate. The four legal additives are: water (or 60 proof petites eaux), boisé (wood flavor essence to simulate aging), sugar syrup (to sweeten the product), and caramel essences (for artificially darkening the product). Charles Neal has a good explanation. http://charlesnealselections.com/cognac/cognac.html
[edit] Armenian Cognac
Anyone know anything about Armenian cognac? Vpoko 15:41, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
-->There's no Armenian cognac. Cognac is only from France. It's Armenian brandy, and I can't tell you more about it!
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- Well, the Armenians do call it Armenian cognac. I recognize that it's a brandy, like all cognac, but they do call it a cognac, no matter how much France might object to it. Vpoko 16:37, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
-->So you must be American, the best country ever to use foreign appelations as Cognac, Champagne, Chablis...Back to your answer, Georgia and its neighbours are famous in Europe for selling more than they produce.
- By a normal linguistic process, the word conyak (approx.) is used in some languages as the word for brandy -- rather as coca (approx.) is used as the name for a sickly-sweet dark brown bubbly drink. Sometimes, using various laws and international agreements, people manage to change this terminology, and that may often be a good thing, because it can be confusing even if not intended to deceive. Encyclopedias can't ignore these terms, however. Andrew Dalby 09:12, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
- Do these people know that Cognac is a town? An AOC? Cognac is a brandy, and to call it Cognac means it's a brandy from Cognac region & appellation. So any other producer/negociant using it for its products out of that just want to lie to customers/consumers. To lie on production area and inferred quality. Do you know Torres brandy from Spain? Did he choose to use an AOC from another country? No, and he has wonderful spirits at really good prices. Did others producers in others countries do it? Some did. If you find a Kognac, Conyac, Coniac, Coñac...just switch for a Torres! ;-) Olive17
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- I've had Armenian cognac and you're right, it's inferior to the French stuff. But its quality and authenticity notwithstanding, it exists and this is an encyclopedia article so it might be worth a mention, even if it's to say that other regions make brandies that they also call cognac and but they are considered knockoffs. I'd put it in myself, but without a source it would be Wikipedia:OR. Vpoko 13:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
--> Aren't there South American brandies that are legally allowed to be sold internationally as cognacs? I seem to remember somthing about some nation negotiating the right in exchange for forgiving a sizable debt that the French owed.
-- -- --> for sure no, don't make me laugh anymore with this debt story!!
From what I've seen online, the English spelling of the Russian word for should would be KONAK, likely pronounced Kone-Yak like you'd expect from Cognac.
The debt payment is related to post-WWII France. I've covered it somewhat in the talk section Uruguay Cognac. Consult that section for links.
France appears to be suing to keep all non-French Cognacs from being called anything sounding like Cognac. Such as the South American variety in question. Also covered further down the talk page.
Mentioning various knockoff Cognac brands would be like putting information on the Hong Kong (or Singapore? don't remember) produced 'Pretendo' NES/SNES-compatible game consoles into the articles for the real NES/SNES. I have no idea if this would be appropriate, but I think it's a valid comparison. At the least, we could put it in with a valid reference, then find something mentioning France's view of the knockoff brands and France's legal take on the issue.74.67.17.22 (talk) 19:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] "Similar" to armagnac?
It was my understanding that armagnac was similar to cognac, in that it comes from France (albeit a geographically distinct region), and is a brandy. There are many differences in production and style. I think it is a mischaracterization to say that the two are "related."
[edit] Cognac Glass
The Cognac Snifter Shown in the beggining of the article is not correct. The proper glass for Cognac is the 'tulip glass' which stops the alcohol vapours to shock your nostrils and allows you to smell the aromas in a more discerning way.213.151.124.82 11:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] American Culture
- Grinderman's song No Pussy Blues has the protagonist drinking "a litre of congnac" and throwing a girl down "upon her back", yet she still does not want to have sex with him.
Removed, this was touch extraneous don't you think? Besides, Grinderman is as relevant to popular American culture as Neil Diamond Smith.
[edit] "Hip Hop Culture"
Suggest removing the sentence beginning with "It is estimated that between 60% and 80% of the American cognac market is now black...," as the link (citation) ending the sentence is no longer working. Please update the link/source, or remove this sentence.
>also can you change "black" to something more accurate, as we have black people in new zealand who are neither african nor american, yet the term "black" describes them too —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.89.41.90 (talk) 08:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Cognac popularity growth in hip hop goes back to at least 1990. Greg Jacobs (aka Shock G, Humpty Hump) mentions it in a song called The Humpty Dance. "I drink up all the Hennessey ya got on ya shelf" I thought his name would be interesting to put in there, considering that the other artists weren't as known in 1990. His sang the line while in his stage persona Humpty Hump. You can refer to various websites and interviews for references to this lyrical line. I don't know which are good Wikipedia resources, so I'll leave that up to a more practiced editor.74.67.17.22 (talk) 10:55, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Uruguay and Cognac
The comment about cognac and uruguay needs citation or to be removed. I cannot find another reference to this obscure fact and am sure that it's probably not true. Can anybody verify this "fact"?
[edit] Uruguay and Cognac
The comment about cognac and uruguay needs citation or to be removed. I cannot find another reference to this obscure fact and am sure that it's probably not true. Can anybody verify this "fact"?
- The above comment is not mine, it's unsigned. I didn't bother looking through any different article versions to look for the edit since the above comment wasn't signed/dated. What follows this sentence is a six hour long contest between myself, the internet, and the mysterious Spanish language with it's 'ny' and 'iy' sounds coming from a single n or i with a funny squiggle above it.
After some digging, I found a copy/pasted mention of the removed text. This is exactly the text I found, as it appeared. Here it is, copy/pasted back to us, in a full-circle gesture.
"The region of Cognac, divided up into six growth areas, or crus (singular cru), covers the department of Charente-Maritime, a large part of the Charente and a few areas in Deux-Sèvres and the Dordogne. [...] The only other place where Cognac can be made is in Uruguay. After World War II, France paid its debts to ANCAP of Uruguay with Ugni Blanc, know-how for making Cognac, and the right to use the denomination."
Interestingly, Yahoo Answers links to this article. A copy/paste of a portion of this article, including the paragraph in question, was submitted as an answer to someone asking what Cognac is.
This link provides information that supports the claims in this version of the paragraph. It also introduces us to Juanico Winery. The author also mentions in the after-publication comments that the 'legend' of Uruguayan Cognac may have some falseness to it, something about trademark infringement. Seems they're declaring Uruguay Cognac as illegal now. Might be related to the fact that the original recipient doesn't own Juanico Winery anymore. Might be able to get some links to look through by emailing the owner of the article at the below link that wouldn't count as original research. dan@saltshaker.net http://www.saltshaker.net/20060227/a-mix-of-grapes-and-cultures
ANCAP is a petroleum company in Uruguay. http://www.ancap.com.uy They also manufactured Cognac, and the letters ANCAP can be found on bottles of cognac. Here's an image of a particular bottle of Cognac I found. The bottle says Argentina, which appears to be an error since you can check its origin, Juanico, which is a winery in Uruguay. You may have to download the image and enlarge it to see the lettering. http://minivodkaguy.com/JuanicoCognacArgentina.jpg
I was unable to find a source for that trademark infringement claim. At the very least, France thinks they're still manufacturing since there was a bill passed 2 years ago saying that Juanico could not make Cognac anymore using the official method. It's possible that the image I found of the bottle is of a bottle old enough to predate the sale of Juanico's Cognac-appropriate grapevines to another owner, but I haven't found a picture of another bottle.
A theory of mine is that Juanico thinks they can still sell their existent Cognac inventory abroad as long as they don't make any more, and Cognac (town in France) thinks they shouldn't be selling any either. Since I don't understand French well enough to search for anything to prove/disprove my theory, I'll leave it up to someone else if they feel like it. I'm sure there's some French news article mentioning it somewhere, if it indeed exists.
http://www.ancap.com.uy (flash site) ANCAP sells alcoholic beverages under the label CABA S.A. which appears to be short for "COMPAniA DE BEBIDAS ALCOHOLICAS S.A." which when translated from spanish is basically 'alcoholic beverage company INC.
CABA S.A. homepage, dealing exclusively with consumable alcohol, as opposed to ANCAP's production of industrial alcohols and solvents. http://www.caba.com.uy/htm/tragos.htm The page features a number of drink recipes, many featuring Juanico Cognac. Juanico is listed as one of their products, and is identified as a Cognac. The wikipedia article doesn't list the Juanico brand. http://www.caba.com.uy/htm/juanico.htm The page includes english translations of the body text. The top banner says CABA S.A. Under that it says in Spanish, 'The ANCAP Alcoholic Beverage Company, Incorporated.' Apparently S.A. is Spanish for 'INC.' even though Incorporated is Incorporado. Might be like the German G.M.B.H.
I'm sorry if this whole thing is a mess of the talk page. I tried editing a few wikipedia articles and ended up unable to get it to look anything but 'UNREGISTERED IP WAS HERE' so I'll leave the editing up to the pros. I'm more a research type than a syntax type.74.67.17.22 (talk) 19:17, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] "WWI cognac continues to surface in Macedonia"
"Dubbed ’nectar of the gods,’ 90-year-old spirit now worth $7,000 per "[1]. I thought it might merit a mention in the article...--87.227.77.85 14:58, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Brands and Companies?
The "Companies" section seems redundant to the more complete "Brands" section. Any reason why I shouldn't remove it? -Verdatum (talk) 02:44, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] 10 vs 10%
If 90% must be special grapes, then 10% can be other grapes. Why did you revert this? RogueNinjatalk 11:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry I read the text to specify the number of varieties allowed for the remaining 10%, but of course this number is five. Added the first references of the page to clear this up now. MURGH disc. 13:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] VS, VSOP and XO
Why hasn't anybody questioned the meaning of these abbreviations? As Cognac is a French drink, I would expect there to be a French meaning to these abbreviations. I must admit, these abbreviations fit the English version nicely, but I would like to see proof this from a reliable source (e.a. non-wikipedia website, preferrably from a Cognac brand). HagenaarsDotNutalk 16:30, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, we need better sourcing. But no, the meanings are correct as stated. The British and their abbreviations were essential in establishing the international trade of many types of alcoholica, from sherry and port to whisky and cognac. (Who knows, Mr. Hennessey might have had a hand in this.) But the use of these names for cognac/armagnac, while unofficial, reflects the "British standard" common to these specialty spirits. I think the French just picked up on that. Jtnet (talk) 09:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
