Talk:Coat of arms of Norway

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[edit] Royal coat of arms

I have twice recently felt obliged to remove unsuccessful attempts at improving the approved royal coat of arms of Norway. The correct image may have a low resolution, but a low resolution is better than an incorrect depiction of an official symbol of the monarchy. Roede 22:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

The official COA of the King of Norway has once more been replaced by a home-made version by Ssolbergj. He asks: "Why is it unsuccessful? If you can point out something to improve, it's ok, but right now i don't see anything wrong." Answer: The Kings of Norway use a specific design for their official COA, introduced in 1905 upon the accession of King Haakon VII. It was designed by the painter Eilif Peterssen. The shield, the lion, the robe, and the crown of the official COA are all distinctly different from the elements constructed by SSolbergj. The least plausible element is the cross suspended from a kind of ribbon around the shield. According to the description in the article, "The shield features the insignia of the Royal Norwegian Order of St Olav around it." Let us keep it that way, so that the image does not contradict the text. Consequently, I have once more reintroduced the correct version, hoping that it will remain until it is replaced by an image of the same design with a higher resolution. Roede 16:27, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I've improven the robe, crown and order. The lion is the 1905 design and everything is correct. This new robe is closer to the on on www.kongehuset.no than the old jpeg. If you still aren't satisfied, then download Inkscape and correct it yourself. (it's easy) Dont think that Image:Roynorw.JPG is the "set in stone 100% correct". Probably not the original by Eilif Peterssen. (there are 1000 different versions out on the net. for example this)) The SVG is much closer to this than Image:Roynorw.JPG, so please don't revert.

S. Solberg J.

23:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
You are getting closer now! The lion is excellent, and the crown is the correct 1905 version with the funny little lion cub on top. Only the chain of the Order of St. Olav still has potential for improvement. The chain ought to be more chain-like. In the shields along the chain, those on the (heraldic) sinister side are facing left, probably because you have inverted the opposite half. All the lions should face the same way, to the (heraldic) dexter or right side. The ciphers of St. Olav and the little crowns ought to be outlined more clearly. Carry on! Roede 17:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Ssolbergj's image is very good but why not upload a drawing by Eilif Peterssen for reference? He died in 1928, so the original drawing is PD now (legal restrictions still apply naturally). Valentinian T / C 11:39, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Here is Eilif Peterssen's painting from 1905, in the Norwegian Foreign Ministry. Roede 21:25, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
It would seem that this version of the royal coat of arms was replaced with a slightly different one at some point during the last century. If you look at the official website you will see that the one they use has a narrower robe and a cross on the top of the crown instead of the small Norwegian lion. [1][2] So, we should probably replace the image in this article, and move the one used now to the gallery. -- Nidator T / C 13:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that change happened with the redesign of the Royal House web pages. Also the crown is very much different and it is ajusted to be B/W. I am not so sure it should be treated as an official change in the design.Inge (talk) 15:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
It is not just the website though. I have a book called "Königliche Paläste" that is a German translation of an Italian book from 1999 and in the section about Norway there is an image of an embroidered version of the royal coat of arms that is now used on the website. -- Nidator T / C 16:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
It seems to me that the crown design is at least from the after the present king and queen took office, but I can't be sure. As you can see it is used in the Harald/Sonja monogram here. I think I'll just send a mail to the palace and ask.Inge (talk) 13:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
That sounds like a good plan. Tell us what the reply is. -- Nidator T / C 14:18, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Did anything come of this correspondence? -- Nidator T / C 12:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I sent the palace an email, but it was not answered. The web page states that the palace does not answer all emails and a real letter is needed to guarantee an answer. I haven't followed up on that and I don't think I will. In any case I don't think the royal coat of arms has changed. Inge (talk) 17:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Crown and silver axe

It is stated that the crown and silver axe was added in 1280, but the seal of Jemtland was granted in 1274 and already contains the Norwegian coat of arms with crown and axe. The Jemtland informtion seem to be well referenced while the 1280 seems not to be. Still I have a faint memory that this is the year mostly given. Any comments?Inge (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I would like to just list some hypothetical explanations:
The date for adding the axe and crown is wrong, but the king (Eirik Magnusson) is right.
The King is wrong and the date is merely taken from Eirik Magnusson's reign dates.
The seal of Jemtland was granted in 1274 and was later changed to fit the new design of the Norwegian coat of arms of 1280. Ie. all but the depiction of the seal is right.
The seal was not granted in 1274.
The seal was not granted by Magnus the lawmender.

Inge (talk) 17:05, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

The old seal of Jämtland is said to have been granted in the 14th century, though it has in fact been dated to 1274 (see here). I have never given it much thought myself though. Your third hypothesis seems very plausible regarding the seal. //Heimvennar - divider 20:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Earldom of Iceland, Orkney and Kristiansand?

I have added the coat of arms of the Earldom of Iceland, Orkney and Kristiansand, but perhaps they (and Jemtland?) should be included in a second gallery, seeing as they are the coat of arms of foreign/sub-national entities. Opinions? -- Nidator T / C 19:25, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Politi-norway.png

Image:Politi-norway.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 08:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] coat of arms from 1220?

The article says: Håkon the Old (1217-1263) used a shield with a lion. The earliest preserved reference to the colour of the arms is the King's Saga written down in 1220. This needs to be specified. In which saga is Håkon's coat of arms described? Which saga was written down in 1220? Håkon Håkonsson (Håkon the Old)'s saga was written down in the 1260's. Something is wrong, but what?--Barend (talk) 11:36, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

No one has replied, and no one has modified the sentence in the article, so I deleted it, as it is meaningless - what "the King's Saga written down in 1220" is supposed to mean is impossible to tell.--Barend (talk) 21:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)