Talk:Buckton Castle

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	Buckton Castle has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
March 9, 2008 Good article nominee Listed

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[edit] Towards GA

Thank you for asking me to comment on this article which may be a candidate for GA. I am no expert but I make the following points towards possible improvement, which I hope are helpful.

• It's a pity there is not more information around but I do not see why short articles should not be considered as GAs. The information you have is clearly presented and very well referenced.
• The lead is rather short. Can it be expanded to give a fuller summary of the whole article?
  • It's been expanded a bit. Nev1 (talk) 21:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
• The word "medieval" occurs twice in the first sentence. Can one of these be changed?
  • Removed unnecessary second occurrence. Nev1 (talk) 21:20, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
• This may be personal, but I prefer the History section to come before Layout.
  • Similar to having history at the start for settlement articles, done. Nev1 (talk) 21:20, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
• I suggest a section on the Present state. What is there to see today? Is there public access?
  • That's not a bad idea, but there are two problems: finding a source for what's there; and the fact that not much can be seen. The remains are buried and it just looks like a few earthworks. Nev1 (talk) 21:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
• Pastscape at [1] mentions the finding of two gold bead chains. That sounds interesting. Can you find out anything about this; when were they found; where are they now; from what historical period do they come; have there been any other similar finds?
  • I've been using Pastscape a lot recently and I think it's very good - especially if you have no other source - but not infallible: the most glaring thing is that Buckton Castle is definately not rectangular. The sources I'm using haven't mentioned any gold chains, but Pastscape may be referring to the catalyst for treasure hunting (there was a rumour there was buried gold up there). Nev1 (talk) 16:15, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• What is a Type B ringwork? I certainly have no idea. The article Ringwork does not explain the types of ringwork. Would it be possible to clarify this? I suggest this might be better done by expanding the Ringwork article than by an explanation within the text of this article.
  • The source I have doesn't explicitly state what a Type B ringwork is (or even Type A) or why it's significant. However, since only a handful of castles like Buckton have been excavated I thought it would be worth while to include. I agree that the ringwork article needs expansion, that's something else I'll have to work on. Nev1 (talk) 16:15, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
• I suggest you add the date of the excavation to the caption of the image in the infobox; relevant and interesting.
  • Done. Nev1 (talk) 21:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
• Do you have access to Ormerod? This describes the structure (which he calls Bucton castle) in Vol iii, pp. 536–7 and seems to suggest that it was built to defend the road leading from Stalybridge to Yorkshire. It might be worthwhile looking into this further and adding something about it. There is also the image of a plan of the structure at that time which could possibly be incorporated in the article (it should be out of copyright by now).
  • I should have access to Ormerod, I'll have to check, I've got a copy of his plan anyway. I'll try to upload it. Nev1 (talk) 16:15, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Best of luck. Peter I. Vardy (talk) 12:19, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

Hi there, I have reviewed this article against the Wikipedia:good article criteria and although I am not quite prepared to pass the article for GA immediately, I don't think there is a long way to go. I have listed below the principle problems which prevent this article from achieving GA status. The article now has seven days to address these issues, and should the contributors disagree with my comments then please indicate below why you disagree and suggest a solution, compromise or explanation. Further time will be granted if a concerted effort is being made to address the problems, and as long as somebody is genuinely trying to deal with the issues raised then I will not fail the article. I am aware that my standards are quite high, but I feel that an article deserves as thorough a review as possible when applying for GA and that a tough review process here is an important stepping stone to future FAC attempts. Please do not take offence at anything I have said, nothing is meant personally and maliciously and if anyone feels aggrieved then please notify me at once and I will attempt to clarify the comments in question. Finally, should anyone disagree with my review or eventual decision then please take the article to WP:GAR to allow a wider selection of editors to comment on the issues discussed here. Well done on the work so far.

[edit] Issues preventing promotion

(These issues must be satisfactorily addressed, in the article itself or here, before GA promotion can go ahead)

• The lead is made up of short, unconnected sentences. Please break these up to form longer compund sentances which flow better.
  • I've had a go at the lead and hopefully it should have a better, more logical flow. Nev1 (talk) 15:35, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
• "Quarrying in the nearby Buckton Vale Quarry threatens". Should this be threatened?
  • Quarrying is still going on but SAM status should protect it so the tense has been changed as suggested. Nev1 (talk) 15:28, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
• Can we have a link or some explanation as to what a "Type B" ringwork is?
  • I've removed the mention of Type B ringworks as I don't have a source for what they are. At some point I intend to expand the existing ringwork article and hopefully the link to it should be sufficient. In the mean time, I've removed it here for reference:Nev1 (talk) 15:28, 9 March 2008 (UTC) The interior of the castle is artificially raised 1.5 metres (4.9 ft) above ground level, making Buckton Castle a Type B ringwork;^[1] no Type B sites have been extensively excavated.^[2]

Otherwise, I think this is a good article and once the above are addressed I'd be happy to pass it.

Ok, I had a quick go at the lead myself to try and smooth it a little more. The reason I took on this review even though there are articles ahead of it is that I don't have a vast amount of time to devote to GA at the moment and consequently I try and push through shorter articles close to the criteria (thus reducing the backlog within my personal time constraints). I am happy to pass this as it is, and well done on the work achieved.--Jackyd101 (talk) 17:05, 9 March 2008 (UTC)