Talk:Bree Van de Kamp

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bree Van de Kamp article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

Contents 1 Bree's exact age 2 Change her last name? 3 Mother in law 4 Article cleanup 5 Ty Grant 6 Van de Kamp or Hodge? 7 Use the CORRECT name instead of the popular name 8 Sabrina? 9 Protection 10 Name change again...

[edit] Bree's exact age

• How do we know Bree's exact age? Cheater1908 23:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Revealed in "Ah, But Underneath" when Edie opens Mike's cabinet to find all of the information about the residents of Wisteria Lane. Sfufan2005 05:16, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

• Is the picture I put of Bree suitable, discuss. Ahadland1234

[edit] Change her last name?

Are y'all going to change her last name to Hodge, she married Orson. And when prompted by the detective "Mrs. Van De Kamp?", she replied "It's Hodge now".

Should it be Bree Van de Kamp Hodge since most of the time on the show she's been known as Bree Van de Kamp. It doesn't really matter but most people will remember her always be known with her first marriage surname but it doesn't matter. Sfufan2005 22:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It should be either Bree Van de Kamp Hodge or Bree Van de Kamp. Does anyone knows the official WP guideline for these kind of cases?--T-man, the wise 01:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned "Bree Van de Kamp Hodge" is out of the question, since she never once has been refered to as such. I'm not sure there is any official guidelines for these cases, but imo the articles ought to be called the same name as the characters currently are named (Susan Mayer, Lynette Scavo, Bree Hodge, Gabrielle Solis and Edie Britt), and when a character change his/her last name, so should the articles. To discuss what name the character has been known under for most of the time, or what name she/he will be remebered by is, as far as I can see, original research, and thus un-wiki. Pjär80 11:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with everything Pjär80 says. Van De Kamp is no longer a part of her name, and anyone searching for "Bree Van De Kamp" will be redirected to the article anyway. -Trampikey^{(talk)(contribs)} 16:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mother in law

Bree has a new mother-in-law now, too, that needs to be added!

[edit] Article cleanup

I appreciate the effort that has gone into this article, but currently it's primarily a plot summary, which is against the guidelines at WP:FICTION. I recommend that the plot section be condensed down to 500-1000 words, and that links be provided to other sites with a more detailed summary. For examples of what a "good" character article is supposed to be like, please check WP:FA and WP:GA in the "Media" sections. --Elonka 13:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

In all due honesty, i think it makes her seem not a very likeable person.

What does????? How?  Paul  730 11:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ty Grant

Surely Ty Grant should be added to the "Spouse(s)" section of Bree's bio, as an ex-fiancé. This information is given very early on in Season One (in "Ah, But Underneath"): "We sat on Skyline Drive and drank a bottle of apple wine and when we finished it, you turned to me and you said, 'If you marry me, Bree Mason, I promise to love you for the rest of my life.' And even though I was engaged to Ty Grant, and even though my father didn't like you, I said yes."

Furthermore, we meet him in "The Sun Won't Set", 2-08. With George insisting Bree should wear her engagement ring, she dances with Ty at a restaurant, and George, out of jealousy, sets fire to his car.

As ex-boyfriends and -girlfriends of the characters are listed, as well as ex-husbands and -wives who have only been mentioned in dialogue (e.g. Edie's ex-husband, Mr Roswell), it seems apt that Ty Grant should be included as well. --Pob iii 09:57, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Van de Kamp or Hodge?

This article has been renamed from Bree Hodge to Bree Van de Kamp as the result of a move request.

[edit] Use the CORRECT name instead of the popular name

I am contesting the legitimacy of the RfC. Not enough editors were involved in it to grant a real consensus. Since the second episode of season 3 Bree has been only referred to as Bree Hodge (by herself, Mary Alice, Andrew, and the Scavo boys in the supermarket episode). She herself said "it's Hodge now" to Detective Ridley in Episode 3.02. The time when she said "Van de Kamp Hodge" is just because Danielle's name is Van de Kamp. This is the ONLY instance of "Bree Van de Kamp" in a season and a half. Everyone has been calling her Bree Hodge. This situation can't be compared with the issue of Susan Mayer v. Susan Delfino because Susan has not adopted the name Delfino when Bree has adopted the name Hodge. As a huge fan of DH and of Bree I am very annoyed that she still is referenced to as Van de Kamp while her CORRECT name is Bree Hodge. Canjth (talk) 02:38, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I will list reasons this page should be titled a common name..

1)Nobody will search Bree Hodge.

2)Most similar pages are titled Bree Van de Kamp.

3)Uncommon or common, it will be redirected to the same page anyway.

4)It is a rule of Wikipedia

Italian111 (talk) 00:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

To the IP address, 72.228.23.159, that said that I just like to insult people, oh, goodness, that is not true. And I'm emphatically saying that it is not true. You just have a problem with the fact that I gave you a warning for your vandalism. Don't drag my name through the mud with lies because of your personal beef with me. Frankly, I don't have enough interaction with you to even be "after your blood" or whatever. And I hate that it seems that my "vote" to move this article to Bree Van de Kamp was not taken into consideration possibly because of your slander. As for this current discussion, yes, I am still not sure if this article should be titled Bree Van de Kamp or Bree Hodge, considering that Bree Hodge may be close to as common a name for her as Bree Van de Kamp is. When it is just a matter of the female character adopting a new name, no, I don't believe that that female's article should be moved to that new name, because the audience does not mostly know her by that new name. But when that new name becomes almost or just as common as her original name, then I don't object to her article being of that new name (or I should say current name).

I do point out, however, that despite Bree going by the last name Hodge now, there are still plenty of places (more places, at that) and instances on the internet and in the media that list her as Bree Van de Kamp. Flyer22 (talk) 05:22, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

First of all, as a huge fan of Bree, I do not use the name Van de Kamp at all - I use her real name Hodge every time I talk about her and one of my friends who is also a DH fan calls her only Bree Hodge. I suppose that those who want the article to be Bree Van de Kamp resorted to the Google test ("Bree Van de Kamp" 131,000 results, "Bree Hodge" 4,190 results). The thing is the Google test doesn't matter (see Wikipedia:Search engine test#Interpreting results) and neither does the popular use of the name Van de Kamp: her correct name is Hodge. True fans do use this name. It doesn't matter how much a name is pupular if it isn't the correct name. Canjth (talk) 02:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it does matter how popular a name is, which Wikipedia's common name policy points out. And the Google test does matter, but should not be used as primary evidence. True fans also call her Bree Van de Kamp, but I understand your feelings. Flyer22 (talk) 03:12, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Van de Kamp is also her correct name. I could understand your annoyance if we were insisting on calling her Bree Smith or something but her name is Bree Van de Kamp in seasons 1 and 2. It is correct. Wikipedia doesn't deal in continuity, fiction should always be dealt with in the present tense and older seasons are just as relevant as new ones. Giving favour to the name Hodge just because it's her most recent name is recentism. The Google test isn't infallible, but I think the results show that Van de Kamp is more assosiated with the character than Hodge. It's just common sense that we should use it as the article title.  Paul  730 12:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Susan Mayer and Gabrielle Solis' pages use common name so there is no excuse why this page should not be. It is Wikipedias policy.

Italian111 (talk) 23:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

She is always refered to herself as Bree Hodge shortly after his marriage. --SamuelM555 (talk) 23:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

So? You're completely missing the point, we are supposed to use her common name, not what a fictional character self-identifies as in current continuity.  Paul  730 23:42, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Well for me and I think for many, after her marriage, and that Orson Hodge has become a recurent character, it was obvious that it is based on Bree Hodge, as her friends, her children and the narrator Mary Alice Young named her --SamuelM555 (talk) 00:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

It's obvious that what was based on Bree Hodge? Sorry, I'm not really understanding that sentence. I'm not denying that she's called Hodge in current continuity in the programme, but the evidence suggests that she's best known as Van de Kamp in the real world. It's her commonly known name, and Wikipedia naming conventions say that we should use that as the title of the article. Names come and go in the chaotic world of Desperate Housewives, their current married names aren't always what they're actually known as from the real world's perspective.  Paul  730 00:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Susan Mayer married Mike and her page is titled as her common name. The same goes for Gabrielle Solis. What is the excuse this page should not be titled by common name? You people should really wake up and read Wikipedia's common name policy. 72.228.23.159 (talk) 02:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Have Susan and Gabby been explicitly referred to as Delfino and Lang like Bree has been referred to as Hodge, however? Obviously, I agree with you about naming conventions, but just pointing out a possible flaw in your argument. A better analogy might be Lois Lane and Jean Grey, whose married names in current or recent continuity do not dictate what their article titles are. She'll always be known as Lois Lane, not Lois Lane-Kent. Until you can prove that Hodge is what Bree is commonly known as, her article should be called Bree Van de Kamp.  Paul  730 02:39, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

SamuelM555, moving this article against consensus is bad practice. You should also check for double redirects when you move an article. I have moved this article back to Bree Van de Kamp, as that is consensus here on this article's talk page. You should not move this article again, unless you have consensus for it here first. Flyer22 (talk) 05:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

There is no consensus whatsoever that Van de Kamp is the right title for the article. There are currently 2 users that support Bree Hodge (SamuelM555 and I) vs 3 that support Bree Van de Kamp (Flyer, Paul and the anon). 60% is not a consensus at all. Comparing this issue to Susan's and Gabrielle's names is totally fallacious. Susan has never adopted the name Delfino, and Gabrielle has never adopted the name Lang (plus we know she'll get back with Carlos), while Bree has adopted the name Hodge. Using Hodge is not recentism: it has been two years that Bree has been married with Orson AND is using exclusively the name Bree Hodge. All the sources on the Internet that call her Bree Van de Kamp are probably articles and biographies that were written at the beginning of the show and have not been updated. These are outdated and don't count. (see[1],[2], [3], [4], [5]) These are plenty of sources that prove the name Bree Hodge has been widely adopted. We know Rex will not get back in the show and Hodge will remain Bree's name indefinetly. Hodge is therefore her common name. Canjth (talk) 15:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Bree have been using the name Hodge for two years, but she also went by Van de Kamp for two years prior to that. Do the first two seasons no longer count for anything because they're in the past? Read WP:WAF, fiction is written in the present tense, it does not go out of date. Notability does not go out of date. If she was notable as Bree Van de Kamp then, that notability does not disappear just because she's married someone else in the programme. "Hodge will remain Bree's name indefinitely" - that's a joke, how can you possibly know that? People get married, divorved, widowed, and re-married on a weekly basis on Wisteria Lane. Favouring Hodge is recentism because you prefer it solely because it's her current name. This is about fans living in the in the realm of the show; because Bree identifies as Hodge now you think that's her "correct" name. The fact is that she has been known as Van de Kamp for two years and Hodge for two years, and Van de Kamp is better known in pop culture. The Google test may be crude and imperfect, but the results are still incredibly lopsided in favour of Van de Kamp. I've yet to see any evidence for Hodge's notability in pop culture besides fans insisting "it's her real name!" because she currently identifies as Hodge in the show.  Paul  730 17:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, there is consensus to have this article titled Bree Van de Kamp. The other editors that "voted" aren't suddenly excluded just because they aren't commenting at this moment. The point is that the archived discussion above shows that there is consensus not to move this article to Bree Hodge and SamuelM555 was wrong to go against that. Even if it was just three against two, that is consensus. You say that "Susan has never adopted the name Delfino, and Gabrielle has never adopted the name Lang." But I must point out that even if they had adopted those names, and, really, Gabrielle did adopt the last name Lang, that doesn't change what their common names are. It doesn't mean that we should change the title of their articles. If Lois Lane were to suddenly adopt a different last name, that would not change the fact that she is largely known as Lois Lane and that Lois Lane is her common name. There's no way that we would change her article's name...and we shouldn't change the name of Bree's article until we are certain that Bree Hodge is just as common or almost as common a name for her as Bree Van de Kamp is. Those links you provided above include Wiki-based articles, which, of course, state Bree Hodge...because some person jumped to change the title of her article just because she changed her last name...just like what happened here. There are plenty of updated sources that state her as Bree Van de Kamp. And the name Bree Van de Kamp still dominates over Bree Hodge on the internet, even though you feel that doesn't count. Even the sources you feel are outdated because they state Bree Van de Kamp instead of Bree Hodge could have updated to Bree Hodge by now, so they probably just prefer the name Bree Van de Kamp. Flyer22 (talk) 19:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Flyer22, please cool down and ease up on the bold before you violate WP:NPA. At maximum five editors have pushed for the article to be moved to Van de Kamp. Five is not a-plenty. Also, since when is 3 against 2 considered "consensus"? Also note that I didn't move the page during the discussion. I am willing to discuss this issue until there is a consensus. Most of the sources that call her Van de Kamp are not updated. It's not like her name had been changed last week. It's been almost two years! If Lois Lane changed her name and used it for two years every week, and all the other characters of the show chenged the way they call her too, there would be no excuse not to change the title of the article to her new name. As for Gabrielle's name, even if she used Lang a few times, we know she'll come back with Carlos and re-become Solis. Bree will not get back with Rex, he's dead! Is is neither recentism not fancruft to use the name Bree Hodge. It's just her usual name since episoe 3.02 and will probably remain her name for quite a long time. It makes sense to use the name Bree Hodge. Canjth (talk) 20:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, I don't need to calm down and any points toward WP:NPA. Bolding names is something that I (and others) do. Nothing bad is meant by it, and I don't do it every time, just sometimes when making a point, addressing a specific editor...and mostly always in concerns to an editor new to a discussion. That is not a personal attack. I have not personally attacked you. And I am a little angry that you suggested such. I still, however, don't need to calm down. You say that "Five is not a-plenty"... I point out that five (actually six) was deemed a-plenty and consensus above. And since when is 3 against 2 considered consensus? When it is only those individuals taking part in the discussion, especially when stacked against previous (or rather current) consensus. You say that most of the sources that call her Bree Van de Kamp are not updated. Where's your proof on that? Considering that it's been almost two years that she's had the last name Hodge, then what's the reason for these sources not updating to her current name? These sources have what, been inactive, for almost two years? Perhaps they are updated, but don't see a reason to change her name to Hodge. I almost cannot believe that you stated "If Lois Lane changed her name and used it for two years every week, and all the other characters of the show chenged the way they call her too, there would be no excuse not to change the title of the article to her new name." Uh...yes, there would be an "excuse" not to change her article to the new name. Her common name would still be Lois Lane. There is nothing that can make Lois Lane not her common name, the name the world mostly knows her by. There might be a chance that Bree Hodge can be as common a name as Bree Van de Kamp, but Lois Lane will always be the common name and most common name for Lois Lane. You say that it makes sense to use the name Bree Hodge. Well, it also makes sense to use the name Bree Van de Kamp. Flyer22 (talk) 21:05, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Bree is most known as Bree Van de Kamp. In most cases, page titles dont have anything to do with current names, but common names. In most newspaper articles, magazines, DH related websites, and talk shows, they mostly refer to her as Bree Van de Kamp. Italian111 (talk) 20:19, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment - As closing admin I note the request for move was open for 18 days, during which 5 people commented on the move. We cannot second guess the opinion of those who do not comment, apart from the assumption that they are indifferent, we have to go by those who do voice their opinion. As the move was open for longer than the normal 5 day period and there was no significant voices against the move then that was the consensus at that point in time. Keith D (talk) 23:59, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

So, why is the page titled Bree Hodge if the consensus was for Van de Kamp? Or did I totally misread? --Marc ^Talk 01:14, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Because editor AdamDeanHall completely went against consensus or either didn't check this talk page to see that such a move is not consensus. I moved it back. This article should not be moved again...unless consensus deems it so. Flyer22 (talk) 07:50, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Your "consensus" is fading, Flyer. Three people have voiced serious opposition to naming this article with the old name. I understand what you're meaning by saying it has to be titled with the common name, but if you search for a few examples, you will see than when a name is changed, the title of the article is usually changed. See Rogers Centre. It still is commonly known as SkyDome but the article uses the correct name. Same for RMS Titanic - have you ever heard someone say that? No, but it is the correct name. Not enough? Think about Dolphin Stadium, still popularly known as Joe Robbie Stadium or Pro Player Stadium, and about AT&T Park, still popularly called Pac Bell Park. Have you ever heard about the Reliant Astrodome? Probably not. It still is called only Astrodome but we use the new (correct) name. When a name is changed, the article title is also changed. The common name policy is just for cases like Cat which will be called by the common name instead of the correct name which is Felis silvestris catus. There's a huge diference. Canjth (talk) 22:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Susan Mayer, Gabrielle Solis...it just makes more sense for it to remain Van de Kamp. Your reasoning for Cat applies here too. It's more likely to be called by the common name, which is Van de Kamp. I don't see the huge difference other than one is not....a cat. --Marc ^Talk 04:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, it's not "my consensus", it is consensus, and it isn't fading. It's the consensus here on this article's talk page, by even another user, Marc, agreeing that it should stay Bree Van de Kamp, and it's consensus by Wikipedia policy. The most recent user to change this article to Bree Hodge again (which I reverted) did not voice anything, but rather acted against consensus and with a total lack of regard for other editors' feelings. And, no, when a name is changed, the title of the article here at Wikipedia is not usually changed. The examples you cited only mean that we are more obligated to change the name of companies, buildings, or objects at times, but certainly not all of the time. I mean, yes, if Taco Bell started calling itself Taco Shell, we'd have to change the name, or maybe not (I'll explain in the next line), but that's completely different. There would be a good chance that the article Taco Bell would still exist here on Wikipedia...while we have a different article called Taco Shell. Sort of like the UPN and The WB articles still exist here at Wikipedia, even though they are both now known as The CW. The same cannot be done in the case of this article, or rather should not be done in the case of this article, because it's entirely different. We won't have two articles on this character, where one is titled Bree Van de Kamp and the other is titled Bree Hodge.

And more specifically, when a name is changed, and the title of the article here on Wikipedia is changed, it is usually changed back...if it's changed fom it's common name. When someone decided to change the Britney Spears article to Britney Federline, once she married Kevin Federline, it was changed back. And it certainly wasn't halted until after her divorce from him. It was changed before that because the name Britney Spears is undoubtedly her common name, and thus it is her correct name, no matter who she is married to. I'm not saying that I feel that the name Bree Van de Kamp is so much more Bree's common name than Bree Hodge is, but I do believe that it is more common, and also the more notable name of the two, thus this article should stay under that name. Flyer22 (talk) 05:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Marc, for the one hundreth time, this naming dispute can by no way be compared to Gabrielle's and Susan's names. Susan has not adopted the name Delfino and Gabrielle is going to get back with Carlos. However, Bree has adopted the name Hodge and will not get back with Rex. There is a huge difference. How many times will I have to say it again? And this issue is not similar to Cat vs. Felis silvestris catus at all. It is more like Reliant Astrodome vs. Astrodome. The common name is Astrodome, but we have to use the correct name, Reliant Astrodome. The stadium is subject to naming rights that we have to respect, common name or not. In spite of this, I think the naming rights of Bree go to Bree herself, who refers to herself as Hodge now (and has done so for 2 years). Flyer, sorry for not being able to interpret your comment because I'm no Britney Spears fan, so I don't know if she used the name Federline or not, but if she and her fans had used exclusively the name Federline for an extended period of time, it should have been changed to the new name. See this fan site, [6], it clearly shows that fans do call her Hodge. So we should do like what has been dome with Reliant Astrodome and Rogers Centre. These cases are very similar to what we are discussing right now.

Oh and by the way, another user was bold and moved the article to its correct title without going through gigabytes of discussion. (which got the page move-protected) That shows there is serious opposition to using the outdated "Van de Kamp" name. Canjth (talk) 01:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Fiction does not date in the way you're implying. Per WP:WAF, all fiction should be described in the present tense, and per WP:RECENTISM, being recent doesn't make something more important. An episode which aired years ago should be treated with the same importance as one which aired last week, because for somebody watching that ep on DVD or reruns or whatever, that particular episode is the present, not the past. If you watch season 1, Bree is called Van de Kamp, that moment can be relived as many times as you want, it doesn't go away. So what makes her name in season 4 any more important than the one she has in season 1? If anything, her season 1 name is the more important one since that's what she was originally known as, that how she was originally created. The opinion of fans is irrelevant here since they're not reliable sources, and Wikia is hardly a reliable source either. The serious opposition to the name Van de Kamp is coming from recentist fans who are living in the fictional universe of the show. It doesn't matter if Bree identifies as Hodge now, cos I can easily stick on a season 1 DVD and she'll identify as Van de Kamp. It's fiction, what matters is what she's known by in the real world. The name Hodge has not established more notability than Van de Kamp, and until it does, the original name should stay.  Paul  730 02:31, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, I've basically stated all I have to state on this subject. You don't have to be a Britney Spears fan to understand the example I gave you or common name policy. Her fans would not have used "exclusively the name Federline for an extended period of time"...because that is not her common name. And even if they had, that would not make Federline her common name to where her article should be moved to that. And more importantly, Bree is not exclusively called Bree Hodge...by either all of her fans or all of press. I don't see your examples as the same in concerns to this fictional character article at all. People keep moving this article? So what. Doesn't show any strong opposition to this name to me. People kept moving the Eva Longoria article to Eva Longoria Parker. Doesn't mean that there's strong opposition to her article being titled Eva Longoria. All that means is that the minute a woman marries a man, some users on Wikipedia feel that they are doing the right thing by changing that woman's article title. Well, I don't agree with that. And neither does Wikipedia policy. All we can do now is wait and see what more editors here have to say about moving this artcle to Bree Hodge or not. Flyer22 (talk) 02:38, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh yes, when the move protection expires, people will keep moving this article to its legitimate title. And the difference is that I will do it too. It's not a case of "a minute a woman marries a man", it has been two seasons! There is a precedence shown by the list of baseball stadiums for which we use the correct names. If you want to leave this article at Bree Van de Kamp per "common name", then you should move Reliant Astrodome to Astrodome, Dolphin Stadium to Joe Robbie Stadium, and Rogers Centre to SkyDome and so on. Up to now, I've been a good Wikipedian. I didn't move the article against "consensus" and I exposed my rationale on the talk page in this discussion. But I've done my part. A little bit more and we could have made it to WP:LAME. There are other people who also understand that the correct title is Bree Hodge, but for some unknown reason they didn't voice their rationale here. It doesn't mean that they don't exist. Count on us to give back her correct name to Bree when the move protection expires. Canjth (talk) 02:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Changing the name against consensus just means we'll change it back. I'm sure edit warring will be a constructive solution to the problem (note sarcasm). There is a difference between using a full name and a completely different name. Your examples of RMS Titanic and Astrodome, for example. Technically, Bree alone is the character's most common name. She's best known in pop culture as "Bree from Desperate Housewives", we just use a surname because it's more professional and complete way of disambiguating the word "Bree". As for something like a building or stadium or something which changes name... I would assume WP:COMMONNAME would still apply but in any case it's a flawed analogy because it's not fictional. As I explained in detail above, fiction does not date like a building does. It's timeless. You keep referring to "Hodge" as her "correct" name but how is it anymore correct than "Van de Kamp"? Her name is Van de Kamp in seasons 1 - 2, and Hodge in seasons 3 - 4. The early seasons haven't disappeared, they can be relived as many times as you want, and yet you seem to think they don't count anymore because they're not the most recent story? You fail to provide sources for why Hodge is more widely used per WP:COMMONNAME, you just keep going on rants about baseball stadiums. How can we help you understand that being current doesn't mean being "correct" per Wikipedia naming conventions.  Paul  730 02:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

You know Canjth, any admin that stumbles upon your comments would probably assume that you are annoucing that you (and "everyone else" are going to be disruptive to this article because you disagree with the consensus of the page. You basically acknowledge that the second the protection is removed you plan to engage in edit warring over the name of the article. Personally, I think the article is already at the correct title, as the character was created with that name. It's the name she started with, and it's a name fans know. It's like arguing canon for an article in Wikipedia....Wikipedia doesn't care about canon, it cares about history. Historically, she was created as "Bree Van de Kamp"...it was only through story arcs that she became married and changed her name.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 03:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, it is a matter of "the minute a woman marries a man" for some users on Wikipedia. Anyway, I still don't have much more to say on this subject. Paul and Bignole have summed it up perfectly. Flyer22 (talk) 08:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Folks, I protected the page to allow time for you to discuss the matter and come to a consensue. If people just want to get their own way as soon as the protection is removed then it will have to be made permanent. Please discuss this in a WP:CIVIL manner and attempt to come to a consensus. Keith D (talk) 10:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

We have, Keith. A consensus that has not changed. Flyer22 (talk) 10:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Hillary Rodham Clinton's common name is Hillary Clinton... but we use her correct name. The common name policy doesn't prevail on everything else, not even on common sense.

However, may I suggest that a possible title for the article could be Bree (Desperate Housewives)? This has been done with Lois (Malcolm in the Middle). I still thing it sould be Bree Hodge but it would still be better than using a name that she doesn't have anymore. Canjth (talk) 23:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Common name policy does prevail, in the cases it's supposed to. Hillary's article was titled Hillary Clinton. There a reason it was moved to Hillary Rodham Clinton. Do the research and see why. And, jeez, just because her full name is Hillary Rodham Clinton doesn't make that name any more her correct name than Hillary Clinton is. I mean, of course, Hillary Clinton is her correct name. They both are, just one is more common than the other. While we aren't using the most common name for her, there is clearly a good reason why that is (or there should be). There are bound to be some articles on Wikipedia that aren't at their common name, either due to some hasty editor or otherwise. It wouldn't make sense to move this article to Bree (Desperate Housewives) because there is no other article occupying either of Bree's names. We only resort to stuff like Alex Kelly (fictional character), etc., when they share the name with another or several subjects. You keep trying to get this article moved from Bree Van de Kamp, saying that it's a name that she shouldn't have. We've explained why she should have this name. And actually still does in fiction. You disagree with her article being titled under this name. It's as simple as that...at least for now. Flyer22 (talk) 03:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

How about Bovine spongiform encephalopathy? The common name for this is Mad cow disease... I've provided tons of examples to prove that the common name policy neithe prevails on using the correct name nor does it prevail on common sense. Bree has been called exclusively Bree Hodge by all characters including herself and Mary Alice for two years so it is just common sense to use Bree Hodge. You have not provided a single good example of application of the common name policy that is also used against the name a person or character uses to refer to themself, the correct name and against common sense. Canjth (talk) 16:10, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh my heavenly days...can't you just let this lie! There's STILL consensus on the page title!! --Marc ^Talk 16:12, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Canjth, you're still bringing this up? No, none of your so-called examples have been good, for various reasons that I've pointed out. Common name policy does make sense and it often does prevail on Wikipedia. Yes, I, as well as others here, have given good examples and reasons why this article should be called Bree Van de Kamp. Jeez, I'd forgotten all about this discussion. Like Marc has just stated, let this lie. Or rather die...unless more editors here actually show up to agree with you about this. Flyer22 (talk) 08:26, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

For the record I agree that Bree Hodge is her common name. -- Noneofyourbusiness (talk) 15:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sabrina?

Err, where is it ever stated that Bree's full first name is Sabrina? Yes it may be implied with Bree being short for Sabrina but this does not make it the case. I'm changing this until someone can get some evidence! --Marc ^Talk 05:01, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

I have move protected the page for awhile because of the constant switching of the title against what was the consensus in December. Please try to reach consensus on the talk page for the name of article before requesting a move. Thanks Keith D (talk) 14:25, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I have restored the page again to the agreed title as it was moved without discussion. I have also move protected it again and request that moves are made only by agreement, following discussion on the talk page. Keith D (talk) 18:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name change again...

Now she's been Bree Hodge for two seasons, as long as she was Bree Van de Kamp, and the season four finale indicates she'll still be Bree Hodge in the next season. I understand the hesitance, after the shortness of the Delfino and Lang marriages, but I think the time has come. -- AvatarMN (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Just because the name Bree Hodge has been used for two seasons, it doesn't mean that becomes her common name! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.204.177.99 (talk) 19:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Being more recent and for a longer term doesn't make it the more common? Really?? -- AvatarMN (talk) 13:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to settle it, I don't care if her name is "Bree Hodge" for the next 18,000 seasons her "common name" and "most popular referred name" is "BREE VAN DE KAMP!" The article will remain Bree Van de Kamp, because thats who she will be. That's who she was before she married Orson and thats who she'll be after Orson leaves or dies! —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimothyBanks (talk • contribs) 23:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)