Talk:Bond girl

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[edit] Bond Girls

Should the list of Bond girls be here, rather than in James Bond? What do people think? --Daniel C. Boyer 13:15, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable to me. Rmhermen 13:29, Aug 14, 2003 (UTC)

Shouldn't the names of the characters be listed with the actresses? --Ckape 01:19, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Bond villains

Is there a page on Bond villains ? Jay 17:26, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks to User:Paulus and User:K1Bond007 for creating one ! Jay 11:01, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Jenny Flex and Naomi

This list basically features all the female character with whom Bond had some sort of romantic/sexual encounter. Should Jenny Flex from A View to a Kill and Naomi from Spy Who Loved Me be listed? I don't recall them being any more than eye candy (and minor villains), as opposed to romantic conquests. The same could be said for Peaceful Fountains of Desire in "Die Another Day" although Bond did, at least, have a couple of moments with her. Thoughts? 23skidoo 16:38, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

-If- they had screen time with Bond then I'd say they count. K1Bond007 17:31, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

OK, that covers Naomi sufficiently, but IIRC Jenny Flex only met Bond for about 2 seconds in AVTAK. But I haven't seen the movie for ages so I may be wrong. Wasn't there also an Oriental girl alongside Jenny? 23skidoo 00:57, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Truth be told, AVTAK is my least favorite Bond film. I've only seen it...maybe twice. :) K1Bond007 05:19, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Naomi is definitely a "Bond girl" as Caroline Munro actually starred in the movie. Jenny Flex is not a Bond girl per se, neither is Pan Ho, nor Della Chruchill from Licence to Kill.

[edit] Criteria suggestion

Further to K1Bond007's comment during a recent edit, there does seem to be a popular misconception as to what a Bond girl is. I have seen women with walk-on roles given the title Bond girl and promoted as such, for example. K1Bond007 suggests scaling back. My suggestion is since the term "eye candy Bond girl" has already been established, maybe the key is to break the listing down into major Bond girls, minor Bond girls, and then eye candy. For example, in OHMSS Tracy would be the only major Bond girl, while the two Piz Gloria patients Bond sleeps with would be listed as minor Bond girls, and the remaining girls (including the one played by Joanna Lumley) would be listed as Eye-candy Bond girls. Similarly we could list female characters who don't really interact with Bond as eye-candy such as Jenny Flex from AVTAK, and maybe Madonna from DAD as well since except for flirting with Bond she just stands in the background and watches him swordfight. Thoughts? 23skidoo 02:22, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I'd rather not do Major vs Minor. Perhaps just leave as is and create an "eye-candy" section. Otherwise you gotta define what makes one minor, while the term "eye-candy" is already loaded with a definition. My problem with the list was that I didn't see a reason to list "The Australian girl" and and so on in OHMSS when total they had about 3 minutes on screen. I wouldn't consider them Bond girls.K1Bond007 02:34, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. I think they fit the eye candy criteria, however, so I agree that at least an Eye Candy section should be created. 23skidoo 05:08, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestive Names

Should there be mention of the suggestive names that some Bond girls have? Pussy Galore, Holly Goodhead, Xenia Onatopp, etc. It's a well known enough feature that Myers spoofed it after all... Bob the Pirate 16:36, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

It's mentioned in the first paragraph. If you want to expand, please do so. K1Bond007 17:10, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Either here or in the Goldfinger article it might be worth noting that studio heads at one point wanted Pussy Galore to be renamed Kitty Galore or some such for the movie version. 23skidoo 21:02, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Doh, didn't notice that. Bob the Pirate 15:42, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tables messed up on Opera

The table cells don't have any borders while viewed on Opera, so we don't know where 1 row ends and the next begins. I'm using Opera version 8. Jay 16:13, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Overdubbing of actresses

I know this is covered elsewhere also, but I think it would be a good idea to make reference to the fact a number of Bond film actresses (with the exception of Lois Maxwell, Honor Blackman, Diana Rigg, and one or two others) were overdubbed by the same voice actress. This is particularly the case in Dr. No; if you listen carefully you'll hear Sylvia talk with Honey's voice and vice versa. 23skidoo 04:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Love interest or sex object"

That's a bit prejudicial isn't it? OK, Bond Girls aren't the most nuanced characters but Halle Berry at least rises above that categorisation, and she's definitely a Bond Girl. DJ Clayworth 21:48, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious

It was initially planned that her death would actually occur in Diamonds Are Forever (1971), but this idea was dropped during filming of On Her Majesty's Secret Service when current-Bond George Lazenby announced he would step down from the role.

This doesn't make sense, as first of all, she dies in the book, and second, Lazenby didn't seem to break with EON until the infamous premiere, not "during filming". It doesn't jibe with accounts e.g. here.--Dhartung | Talk 00:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

It may not make sense but I believe it's mentioned in the John Cork book James Bond: The Legacy. I need to get ahold of a copy to doublecheck. I have seen several sources on TV and in print that stated that EON didn't want OHMSS to end on a downbeat note, so OHMSS was going to end with the wedding and DAF was going to open with the killing, thereby setting up Bond going after Blofeld. 23skidoo 00:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

First off, count how many times EON Productions has done something that was different in the book (just look at Diamonds Are Forever). Second, it is correct; Lazenby made it known before filming was complete that he wasn't returning. 2 endings were indeed devised, one, as 23skidoo alludes to, was Bond and Tracy riding off into the sunset in Bond's car with the idea that DAF would start with her death (in the PTS) followed by Bond getting revenge. There is enough proof of this outside of the original OHMSS script. They actually had a couple DAF drafts to cover it, one of which was Auric Goldfinger's twin brother (which he doesn't have or never spoke of in the novel nor the film) killing Tracy. There are tons of interesting drafts for DAF (one was more faithful to the novel and had the Spangled Mob). K1Bond007 02:25, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm hoping someday these alternate drafts will be published somewhere. I'd love to see the Blofeld version of Spy Who Loved Me, or the version of Moonraker that was planned (and possibly written?) to follow one of the 1960s Bonds - I forget which one). 23skidoo 02:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Heh.. incidentally Goldfinger's twin from that DAF draft I was talking about was a Swedish shipping magnate who had a super tanker. Gee.. I wonder where that idea went. The SPECTRE draft was written by Cary Bates (writes comics and was apparently recommended by Roald Dahl) and was more of an adaptation of Moonraker that involved Hugo Drax as an (I think) Emilio Largo type for SPECTRE. Apparently he was HQ'd under Loch Ness. You can see the similarities with the finished product except for whatever reason, the Bond girl was Tatiana Romanova from FRWL. Interesting anyway. There were 10 drafts of TSWLM and I'd like to get my hands on at least one of them just for grins. I've seen excerpts and John Cork I think has mentioned them in one of his books, I believe. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever going to happen because those ideas they throw out tend to eventually be used in some manner down the road (e.g., the Acrostar Jet scene in Octopussy was written for Moonraker). K1Bond007 04:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moneypenny Diaries

Just so we are complete, do any Bond girls appear in the first Moneypenny Diaries book? Also, it probably wouldn't hurt to include Bond girls within the John Pearson biography of 007 since it's considered a Bond novel by some authorities. If I have time I'll thumb through my copy and add the list. But I've yet to get my hands on Moneypenny Diaries. 23skidoo 01:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Xenia Onatopp superlative

I removed the statement saying that Xenia is the only major female character Bond does not bed as this is an incorrect statement. Although you can't really call them "Bond girls", nonetheless Rosa Klebb and Irma Bunt are major female characters. In addition, Bond does not bed Bibi Dahl (for good reason) in For Your Eyes Only, nor does he bed Plenty O'Toole in Diamonds (though he tries to). I can also think of other examples: Tilly Masterson in Goldfinger and Paula Caplan in Thunderball. 23skidoo 03:26, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] M and Moneypenny - Bond girls?

The start of the article mentions "Other female characters such as Judi Dench's M and Miss Moneypenny are not thought of as Bond girls". However, the documentary also mentioned, "Bond Girls are Forever", presents both of them as Bond girls... just wondered if anyone else had any thoughts?? Mjsp rn 20:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Given the generally held view of what defines a bond girl, it's tough to include M for starters, as there is no romance or sexual tension with Judi Dench. Not to mention the fact that M wasn't always female. Personally I don't include Moneypenny either, as the "Bond Girl" stereotype always includes at least one of glamour, "sexual encounter" or "femme fatale", and none of these can be levelled against Moneypenny really (yes I know Samantha Bond got a bit dressed up) Andymarczak 11:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

According to the featurette Bond Girls Are Forever (which is on the Casino Royale DVD), M and Money Penny are both considered Bond Girls. Judi's interview and thoughts on the subject are included in the featurette. I think they are Bond Girls because they play prominent roles (not just background eye candy), and they interact with Bond in a personal way, whether or not sexual nuances are present. As for M's "sex change," I believe the lines become blurred between the actress and the character. Could it be that Judi is a Bond Girl while M is not? Wjcolion 21:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

what about Joanna Lumley?

[edit] Real people as Bond girls

This article states that Lisa Dergan is the only real person to be portrayed as a Bond girl in a published James Bond story, yet lists Janet Davies (a real person) as a Bond girl as well for "Live at Five". A similar contradiction appears in James Bond uncollected short stories. Is there any dispute as to whether Davies is a Bond girl in "Live at Five" or was the article just not updated to include her? --Metropolitan90 05:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bond Boy?

Shouldn't it be noted that one of the Bond Girls was a man at one point in his/her life? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.68.248.214 (talk) 05:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC).

that wasn't a Bond Girl, that was an eye candy70.245.27.156 00:46, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Fair use images of actresses cannot be included in this article, but only in articles about the actresses themselves. The exception would be if there were text in this article which discusses the image itself, not the person in it. Corvus cornix 18:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

A clarification: If the image is a screenshot from a film, it can be used to illustrate the film, but not to illustrate an article about the actress. Corvus cornix 18:21, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

This used to be one of the best articles on Wikipedia. But now it has been completely ruined. What's happened to all the photos ?

It's all very good to say there was a fair use violation - but what replaces them ?

No photo should be removed unless there is another photo available to replace it with.

Without photos, this article is completely ruined.--87.243.196.167 11:59, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Of course, good idea ! Let's ignore law, steal photographs and put them on our article, that's certainly going to encourage people to replace them with free alternatives. Rama 14:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Who's ignoring law and stealing photographs here, pall?? There isn't any fair use violation here. There are certain "contributors" at Wikipedia that have just one goal: based in nonsense, ruin some articles. Free alternatives to Bond girl's characters? How? This is unreal and ridiculous.

Please read User:Durin/Fair use overuse explanation and Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria. Corvus cornix 19:20, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images reverted

I have once more removed the fair use images from the article. Please discuss here before reverting, especially when not using an edit summary. Corvus cornix 20:58, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

YOU must discuss that BEFORE remove the images, and you didn't.

No, I must not. Read Wikipedia's copyright rules. There is nothing to get consensus on here. It's black and white. Corvus cornix 19:18, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No more photos ?

Are there not going to be any more photos on this page ever ?

87.243.196.167 12:13, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Not if they're fair use images of the actresses who played the characters. Find some public domain or GFDL images, and you can use those. Corvus cornix 23:42, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Not if they're fair use images of the actresses who played the characters. It is not actresses who played the characters, but the characters itselves which are portrayed in the images, can you see that? Helooo! Excuse me, are you a system analyst? What about to stay in what you know most, pall? Parallel33

There are not copyright violations here. I think the user above does not understand what fair use is. Parallel33

The user above understands fair use quite well, as well as Wikipedia 's WP:FU policy. Corvus cornix 20:22, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] POV

Just a quick note to people who edit this article: the criticisms section reads like POV copy. The tone sounds like "Well, feminists think this, but no, as you see here..." It shouldn't be that hard to make it more neutral. David Fuchs ^(talk) 21:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Living Daylights

I have no idea why Rubavitch and Rosika Miklos are listed as Bond girls. Bond never had any romantic or sexual interaction with either of them. Especially the latter. The very thought of this is disturbing.--Name Theft Victim (talk) 12:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Original research through synthesis

The first section, which I've tagged with the {{synthesis}} tag is full of original research through synthesis. It presents plenty of conclusions and "trends" about Bond girls (i.e. the kinds of clothes they wear, the amount of makeup they wear, etc.), but it doesn't attribute those conclusions to reliable secondary sources. Instead, it cites the original books by Ian Fleming. As such, this is original research. --Hnsampat (talk) 15:39, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe that all of these trends are mentioned specifically in the Snelling book, which is clearly cited as the main source for this section. The clothing and makeup "trends" you mention, for instance, are very specifically mentioned by Snelling, the latter even being explicitly referenced in the article (re Jill Masterton). (I could provide copious pinpoint citations to Snelling pages if necessary but it's easier simply to read the chapter or two in which he discusses these Bond Girl features.) The citations to the Fleming books are simply to allow the reader to go directly to the material that Snelling himself referenced in his Bond Girl chapters. For this reason, I propose to remove the synthesis tag. --Axefan (talk) 03:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I have, however, removed the "unreferenced" tag as there's a whole section of references. Perhaps they were added after the tag was placed and it was left on by mistake. 23skidoo (talk) 13:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)