Talk:Bnei Brak

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Contents 1 Requested move 1.1 Discussion 1.2 Result 2 Unsourced Statements 3 Statement 4 Religious city 5 origin of name 6 merge with Beneberak

[edit] Requested move

The reasons for move copied from the entry on the WP:RM page:

• There is no official spelling for this name, but the present one is archaic and not used in any modern publication. JFW | T@lk

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Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support. JFW | T@lk 09:43, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
• Support. Jayjg ^(talk) 22:11, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. See Google search results. There'a even a listing for flower delivery to "Bene Beraq". - Gilgamesh 00:14, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

• 979 English pages for "Bene Beraq" -wikipedia
• 101,000 English pages for "Bnei Brak" -wikipedia

The fly in the ointment is that Britannica recognizes "Bene Beraq" but not "Bnei Brak". Let's try a books.google.com search:

• 44 pages on "Bene Beraq"
• 381 pages on "Bnei Brak"

Both spellings are clearly in use and Britannica uses "Bene Beraq" so it's a completely reasonable form. And I'm certainly no fan of Google tests to determine cases like this.

But since "Bnei Brak" passes the sniff test, two out of the three people who have commented prefer that form and the poll has run for a month it seems reasonable to perform the move and close the poll, reducing our WP:RM backlog slightly.

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. - Haukur 23:20, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Didn't notice that the redirect actually doesn't point here so a user with access to the admin tools is needed to perform the move. - Haukur 23:23, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Result

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. WhiteNight ^{T | @ | C} 03:40, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced Statements

Can someone please find a source for the population figures as right now they seem to be very loosely put together --Canadian-Bacon 21:12, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Statement

"In a rapid process, most of Bnei Brak's secular and Religious Zionist residents migrated elsewhere" I don't think this is true. I read somewhere that most of these people actually became haredi. 203.217.94.62 13:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religious city

In Israel, there is only one religious 'city' - Elad, by law. Calling any other city 'religious' is the opinion of the editor. --Shuki 18:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

El'ad isn't even a city. But you are of course correct - no municipality other than El'ad is officially religious. However, I think there's room to name cities religious (but not categorize them as such), and add a footnote saying that they have a majority which votes for religious parties or something (which complies with WP:NOR because there are official stats for this kind of thing). -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 20:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I would disagree. Unlike a religious kibbutz or settlement where all residents might be required to be religious, a city (except for Elad whoever that is legally enforced) is an open settlement for all to live in. Many non-religious live in BB and they identify themselves by saying that they live on the border of Ramat Gan and Bnei Brak. Bnei Brak doesn't even (and can't) close all roads during Shabbat. You can say that a majority vote 'religious', but that's it without a better statistic. --Shuki 20:46, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

There are many cities, towns and neighborhoods in Israel which are religious communities by design or otherwise, even if this is not "official." All that is meant by "religious" is that it is populated by religious people, and that the community (therefore) has a large number of religious institutions. See the corresponding category on the Hebrew Wikipedia: he:קטגוריה:יישובים דתיים בישראל. By, the way, as far as I know most of the "religious settlements" do not have a requirement that one must be religious to live there - they are simply planned as religious communities, and those who move there will be people who want to live there. And yet they are also "religious towns." Shuki, I think it is ridiculous that you have called the categorization of Bnei Brak as religious to be "original research," as this is common knowledge backed up by easily attainable facts/observation. If it were half religious and half not, it could not be so easily categorized as "religious." But Bnei Brak is far from a borderline case. --Eliyak T·C 21:47, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Just to let you know, most settlements, villages, kibbutzim, and moshavim are homogeneous religious or non-religious. Most enforce this lifestyle with absorbtion committees that screen candidates based on religiousness and other criteria. Barkan, for instance, will not accept religious families (though one family did tshuva and hasn't been kicked out), and adjoining Kiryat Netafim vice versa. Given that and my own OR, non-religious family friends live in Bnei Brak and no one can kick them out either (they live on the border with Ramat Gan :-). If the facts are easily attainable, than please reference them. At what point/ratio does a city/town qualify for being religious? 90, 60, 30%? Granted that there is a lot of OR on the Israeli pages for lack of online sources, we still have to be careful not to mislead the uninformed with our personal observations. Face it, tagging BB as 'religious' would be misleading to a reader unfamiliar with Israel. --Shuki 22:22, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] origin of name

i'd like to see a sentence on the meaning of the name. from my primitive hebrew, i'd guess "sons of lightning"? or is there another meaning of brak/barak/whatever? Gzuckier (talk) 21:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] merge with Beneberak

• oppose - against uniting 'ancient history' articles with current namesakes. --Shuki (talk) 22:37, 26 April 2008 (UTC)