Talk:Black hole information paradox

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I read with astonishment -in several media in connection with this paradox- that a commonly assumed tenet of science is that information cannot be destroyed. I am a physics graduate, never heard of it and it seems to be in contradiction with the second principle of thermodynamics and the foreseen cold and hot deaths of the universe. Worse I cannot find in the whole web anything about this "assumed tenet of science". I think someone should explain it.

Manuel Navarro

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[edit] homogeneity and BHIP

I removed the following paragraph which was recently added;

The homogeneity of space and the space-time position independence of the laws of physics is a fundamental assumption of all physics science since Newton. Recenlty, because of the dead end of the Scientific method, scientists like Hawking concluded that the laws of physics are not actually space-time position independant but space-time position bounded, thats why they created the black holes concept and claimed that space or time is absent inside them. The information paradox of black holes is, for some anti-scientists philosophers, the proof that space is not homogeneous and/or that the laws of physics are actually space-time position dependant and not space-time position bounded, as long as, according to the paradox, information seems to vanish or (alternatively) stored to unconventional material (or non-material) objects. Apart from the black hole information paradox, some experiments came also close to the philosophy of the position dependancy of the laws of physics. Some universal constants used in well known equations have been found to change their values (increase or decrease) when measured in small fragments of time or when time passing [1]. A group of pioneer "scientists", lead by John K. Webb [2], continues the experiments in this revolutionary field.

This mostly reads like pseudoscience. The invariance of fundamental physical constants with space and/or time is open to question, and John K. Webb and other's cited may well work on this. However I can't see any connection or relevance to the Black Hole Information Paradox. -- Solipsist 09:16, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Equation

This page ought to have the equation which started it all off.

S = c^3xA/4ħG

S=thermodynamics (Entropy), G = gravity, c is einsteinian theory (speed of light). ħ ("h-bar") = reduced Planck Constant (or Dirac's constant). A is the area

The only real way to destroy information, is to destroy the human race. A black hole cannot destroy information because of the fact that if we observe a star, and a black hole consumes it, we still know the star was there....

Now if we destroy the human race, there is no-one to reproduce with or to share data with, thus destroying the facts and information that we have learned...

...That's not quite what's meant by "information" in this context. You refer to information in terms of human knowledge, which is only the interpretation of sensory input, which will vary from individual to individual. The Great Attractor 00:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

it is impossible to know, trying to answer this paradox is purely futile. the reason for this is that if the information were destroyed we would have no recelection and it is possible that things are disappearing, however we are uncertain because the information which is the memory no longer remains. A more plausible theory is that information is neither stored or destroyed but recycled, for if it were stored there would inevitably be answers to "the beginning" and if it were destroyed then one would see or wonder about a black hole the black hole would itself cease to exist. thoughts of K. Alonzo Valentine II


[edit] surface area of the event horizon

I stopped by this page but I have no astronomic background nor any dedicated skills to the matter but how can you calculate or even define the surface area of the event horizon? I'm quoting the article here: To an external observer the event horizon would appear to take an infinite amount of time to form due to gravitational redshift, and the black hole would dissipate via pre-Hawking radiation before an event horizon would ever form. so how do we define a surface we can never see formed? Does an event horizon even has a surface? I know it is the edge where light remains "trapped" forever but can we even have a clear appreciation of it? I mean can we put or even imagine an observing element (of the ideal size, like the smallest possible) exactly on the edge of the event horizon (where going at the speed of light the opposite way it would remain exactly at the same place, the aspiration of the hole and the movement speed of the observer being in a perfect balance) or can't we?

PS: please answer me directly on my user page if you do :). PSS: I'm a noob, don't forget it plz :)). Matthieu (talk) 13:04, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

If the information survives in parallel universes with no black holes then no information can exist in the first place. AnaxMcShane (talk) 12:25, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

          • Well, I'm not sure how Mr. Hawking is coming to the conclusion that black holes couldn't or wouldn't exist in a parallel universe, but information could, would & does exist in this universe. Hawking is just figuring that any information sent through a black hole in our universe would survive a travel into another universe. His new theory seems awfully rushed... I'm not sure how he's proposing information would be "injected/ejected" into the other universe after being blown/pulled through a black hole. Would it be a white hole on the other side? -Rayne 14:30, 7 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.208.93.60 (talk)

The term 'Black Hole' is a rip off of the term 'Implosive Gravity' and 'Black Holes' should not be thought of as they are currently...

If "Black Holes' function the way some say they do, then why doesn't a 'Black Hole' implode in on itself for infinity until acted upon by some external force?

There is an infinite amount of dimensions for each surface anyway, just as there are an infinite amount of universes with in/on/around each surface.

If we went through a 'Black Hole' and the 'Black Hole' functions as a mover of sorts then it's possible that every thing that goes / went through it will be reconfigured / re-calibrated randomly...

Like a big puzzle cut into smaller pieces and then each piece reshaped and resized to fit into a partial whole or whole again or not at all. AnaxMcShane (talk) 13:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Who deleted it?

Someone deleted the part I put in where cause and effect become unrelated and nothing science knows can be trusted. Why did they do that? I gave citation and everything. Besides, I'd say it's pretty relevant, considering it undermines the whole of physics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dstebbins (talk • contribs) 02:26, 2 March 2008 (UTC)