Talk:Black Sea Fleet

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It might be nice if we could narrow down whether this refers to the First Chechen War or the Second Chechen War. I couldn't figure it out myself fairly quickly & easily, after some minor Googling; but it could easily be that they've been active in both, which would account for my confusion. -- John Owens (talk) 21:18, 2004 Dec 24 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, we're talking at least about the first one. And people, don't you rely so heavily on Google and Internet. In particular, I took this info you demand from RUssian TV and official bulletin of Russian navy. AlexPU
P.S. I think "to base" referring to military units should be used with "on", not with "in" or "at". But don't anyone bother reverting it - not importantAlexPU

Contents

[edit] Ships list

Moved from User talk:Ukrained#Black Sea Fleet

Zdrastuy! Information about the Black Sea Fleet in both Russian and English can be found at their official site, [1]. Information about the composition of the Ukrainian Navy, see World Navies Today. κаллэмакс 22:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you very much. Especially regarding the fact that I was right. Found at least one inaccuracy: Russian: дивизия and Russian: дивизион are a little bit different things (which you couldn't know). So I'm going to search for correct EN analogues for each. Any ideas? And thanks for UA Navy. Ukrained 11:11, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Forget about divisions and battallions: you were correct about them. However, I've corrected brigade names and some typos accordimg to this. Best wishes, Ukrained 11:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Heh, I should have seen that "rocket boat" was "missile boat". :P κаллэмакс 20:12, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uniforms?

Could somebody please tell me what the Black Sea Fleet's uniforms for an admiral look liked in the late 1700's. I'm doing a report on John Paul Jones.

[edit] Ukrainian name in the lead

Can I ask what relevant does Ukrainian language play to the Russian military unit? We don't have German and Italian names for United States Air Forces in Europe, or in particular the lang-de for Ramstein or Spangdahlem. Nor do we have Japanese for United States Fleet Activities Yokosuka. Yet we do for Yokosuka itself. As for the argument it is located on Ukrainian territory, then at present the territory is leased from Ukraine, therefore until 2017 de facto the territory is not Ukrainian, and the Russian flag flies above it. Not in Ukraine therefore not under Ukrainian administartion therefore outside the influence of Ukrainian language. --Kuban Cossack 17:28, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Indeed the Russian fleet does not use Ukrainian language. Nonetheless, being located in Ukraine, the fleet is known under Ukrainian name, which validates the inclusion of this name into the article no less than the name in Russian alphabet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greggerr (talk • contribs) 17:35, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
The fleet is not subjected to Ukraine! It serves the Russian Federation, not Ukraine. Add it to the article about the Ukrainian navy if you want. This article is about a Russian military unit, and as shown by my examples above, articles about units stationed in foreign countires do not have the name in the lead in the language that that country uses. As Ukrainian is not official langauge of Russia, there is no place for it in this article--Kuban Cossack 17:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  1. Oppose, unless it can be demonstrated that having a Ukrainian name in the lead is going to be of benefit to Anglophones. Of course, the fleet is well-known under Ukrainian name in Ukraine, but what's the point of having it in the English-language article?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:36, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
  2. Support it is stationed in Ukraine and as such Ukrainian language version is notable.--Molobo 18:50, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
    In such case, would you care to answer my question immediately above, please?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:52, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
    I don't see any reason to include the Ukrainian version of "Black Sea Fleet" on this page, especially in light of the 1997 understanding that Russia retained the historical name of the fleet. I do want to point out that the leasing makes the territory de jure "not Ukrainian" rather than de facto. When a property owner leases land, he concedes the legal right to utilize the property under certain conditions for certain amount of time as outlined in the legal agreement, but he does at all times retain the title to the land. --Riurik(discuss) 05:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
  3. Oppose, Kuban Cossack makes a valid point. If this were an article on the fleet(s) in Sevastopol then Ukrainian would belong here. It is not; hence it is an independant Russian unit. Bogdan що? 21:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
    What would be true, is that if we make an article about Sevastoploskaya Bukhta, or whatever the name of the actual base is, then yes, Ukrainian will be there, and more likely than not the title would be translited into Ukrainian from Russian. I can create a stub, however the unit that is that base is a Russian military one and hence Ukrainian is unnecessary. --Kuban Cossack 18:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
  4. Oppose as per arguments.--Miyokan 06:02, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How soon is immediately? And other vague sentences.

Somebody changed this line at the Partition of the Soviet Black Sea Fleet section in this article, the line says: However, this immediately led to conflicts with the majority of officers who appeared to be loyal to Russia.Immediately sugest that they start fighting right away? And what was the nature of this conflict? Arguments? Fighting? Prank calls? This article is full with vague sentences. Like:However, recent local conflicts in the Caucasus region (particularly in Georgia) and the development of oil transit in the region are forcing Russia to support the fleet as much as possible. What kind of support is this? Acording to the article there is one ship there from 2001 and the youngest after that from 1991. That doesn't sound very suporty... And is Russia planing on bombing the coast of Georgia? Is this article written to intimidate Mikheil Saakashvili? I'm trying to learn from Wikipedia, not to get confused! Mariah-Yulia (talk) 22:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)