Talk:Berlin S-Bahn

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WikiProject Echo has identified Berlin S-Bahn as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the Serbian language Wikipedia.

Caroline, shall we mention -- for those of us who don't sprechen any Deutsch that the U and S things are underground and surface railways systems?

I'm also thinking of moving the U-bahn and S-bahn articles to more English-sounding names. But I'd like to hear what you think, first. --Uncle Ed 20:57, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

In the absence of any objections, I plan to merge both articles into List of Berlin metro stations -- using for my model the title of List of Lisbon metro stations.

I hope we can link all these metro/underground/subway/commuter rail articles in some organized way. --Uncle Ed 16:08, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I notice that no one has objected to these year-old comments, and that the proposed move hasn't happened anyway, but I'd still like to register my objections to the proposal:

• The origin of the "U" in U-Bahn may be "unterground", but there are extensive elevanted and at-grade sections.
• The origin of the "S" in S-Bahn is actually not entirely clear. Some say it's "stadtbahn" (city train), others "schnellbahn" (fast train). Whatever it is, it doesn't have anything to do with "surface" and in fact the S-Bahn too has extensive underground sections.
• There really isn't any "more English-sounding" name for these systems that would be useful as an identifier. "U-Bahn" and "S-Bahn" have in essence become proper nouns borrowed freely into English. I'm a native English speaker who lived in Berlin for some months and the English-speaking expats there universally said "U-Bahn" and "S-Bahn".
• The two systems, while interconnected and interrelated, are also distinct both historically and operationally, and should have their own articles.

--Jfruh 19:53, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the last comments. There are some things that just can´t be translated. The terms U-Bahn and S-Bahn are nationally known in Germany, similar to Subway in the USA. This is different to the UK situation where the Term "Underground" is only valid for the LUL system in London. Greetings from BerlinIsarSteve 11:07, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

@Jfru:

• "U-Bahn" stands for "Untergrundbahn".
• "S-Bahn" stands for "Stadtschnellbahn". It was originally proposed as "SS-Bahn" (that was before the nazi era), but one of the S got dropped early on. This is well documented.

Anorak2 11:43, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 American Forces under Four-Power Occupation 2 Flooding of the Nord-Süd-Bahn? 3 West Berlin S-Bahn Operations by BVG (West) - until 1990 or 1994/95? 4 Number of stations?

[edit] American Forces under Four-Power Occupation

I know anecdotally (from having been there at the time) that Western occupation forces were forbidden to ride the S-Bahn during the latter portion of the Four Power days, due to its GDR control. I think that this needs to be in the article, but my having been there could conceivably represent original research and would love for someone to document this from a published source.

[edit] Flooding of the Nord-Süd-Bahn?

Do we have documentation for the claim in the article that the Nord-Süd-Bahn was flooded by SS troops during the Battle of Berlin? I'm not that knowledgeable about what happened in Berlin during that period, but it's always been my understanding that exactly what happened with this flooding -- including who is responsible, the Germans or the Allies -- is not definitely known. --Tkynerd 15:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] West Berlin S-Bahn Operations by BVG (West) - until 1990 or 1994/95?

Did the (then West Berlin) BVG run the S-Bahn networks in West Berlin until reunification in 1990 or 1994 when Deutsche Bahn AG was created? (Some say it was 1995.) Certain literatures and/or pages suggested from reunification, the divided S-Bahn networks were immediately reunified and the [ex-GDR] DR ran the whole system until the Deutsche Bahn's creation, others state the BVG kept on running the S-Bahn in the former West Berlin area until 1994/95. There is very little English literatures on this topic, and thus any answers from those who have first hand info will be greatly appreciated. --JNZ 19:37, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

While thy don't offer definitive answers, the historic maps you can find here are interesting and offer clues. In March of 1990, with the wall down but Germany not yet unified, none of the S- or U-Bahn lines in the East are given numbers like the ones in the west, and all lines coming from both directions still terminate at Friedrichstrasse, as they did before the wall came down. In November 1990, just a month after unification, the U-Bahn lines have line numbers in both parts of the city; some S-Bahn lines now cross the old border, and those lines have numbers like the ones wholly in the West, but the lines wholly in the East do not. By June of 1991, all lines throughout the city have numbers in the scheme that has lasted to this day. Not sure if this denotes actual unification of operations or if it was just a branding exercize to make travel less complicated. --Jfruh (talk) 20:20, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Interesting observation. However, the the line numbering system of all public transport was restructured in 1991 to integrate East and West Berlin and the suburbs, but operators continued to be separate. This is true today (the integrated line numbering and fare system has extended over all of Brandenburg meanwhile with many different council bus networks and railway operators taking part), even though BVG (West) and BVB (East) have since merged and the Reichsbahn has ceased to exist. Anorak2 15:00, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

After the wall came down and the first broken links had been re-established (Friedrichstraße on July 1 1990 was the earliest) BVG and Reichsbahn cooperated intensively and gave passengers an impression that the network was as one already.

BVG continued to operate part of the network though, but since 1990 the dividing line was not the former wall. Instead Reichsbahn and BVG operated individual lines end-to-end, both into the "foreign" territory of the other side. For example S2 was all-BVG even after it was extended northward and southward into Brandenburg/former GDR territory. The main east-west route (Stadtbahn) was a joint operation. Individual trains were operated by either BVG or Reichsbahn end-to-end on the same tracks.

This situation ended on January 1, 1994. From then on it was the new privatised Deutsche Bahn AG in all of Berlin. BVG does not operate S-Bahns since then, and the Reichsbahn ceased to exist. Anorak2 15:00, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. I have included the main points in the main article. --JNZ 22:54, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Number of stations?

An anonymous editor just changed the number of stations from 165 to 166, using "update" as the edit summary. Has a new station opened? Can anyone cite a source for the number of stations there are? --Jfruh (talk) 16:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I see now that an infill station opened at Berlin Julius-Leber-Brücke railway station this week. --Jfruh (talk) 17:06, 5 May 2008 (UTC)