Talk:Bei Mir Bist Du Shein

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[edit] renaming

When I renamed the article, I didn't check in Google how many occurences has the previous spelling, Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen. If I did, I would probably not rename it. If some admin thinks that renaming was incorrect, feel free to revert it. --Yms 18:16, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Or, you could just rename it back. What's your source for this other spelling you renamed it to? Wahkeenah 17:45, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
You can't change the name back because the old title is now a redirect page. (You'd have to got through WP:RM.) And this page looks fairly reliable and explains that the current spelling is correct and that the German spelling is a later translation. More info can be found using this Google search. --Espoo 18:01, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Sure you can. Just temporarily replace the old page with some other content besides a redirect, then rename it to something else, then rename this one back, then rename the other one to this spelling, and make it a redirect. I realize that's some degree of trouble, but it's a fitting punishment to whoever messed with it in the first place.
Exactly, you can't "just rename it back" as you claimed.
True, but did you need an admin's help? Wahkeenah 00:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Meanwhile, you're citing stuff that's not in the article. The spelling difference between the article title and opening paragaph is unexplained. Wahkeenah 19:12, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
We weren't talking about the article yet. The source i posted explains why the German name is wrong and gives a Yiddish spelling that corresponds to the current title and therefore proves Yms did the right thing in getting rid of the German article name even though he may not have researched enough first to be sure of his choice.
One has to be careful with Google results and a Yiddish dictionary + grammar would be a better source, but although Googles of "Bay Mir Bistu Sheyn" and "Bei Mir Bistu Shein" produce about equal numbers of hits, 532 hits for "Bay Mir Bistu Sheyn" site:edu. and 14 hits for "Bei Mir Bistu Shein" site:edu show clearly that the former is preferred on US edu sites, which are clearly more reliable than Internet sites in general.
On the other hand, this authoritative page says The song in question, with Yiddish words by Jacob Jacobs and music by Sholom Secunda, was first published as "Bei Mir Bistu Shein" on September 25, 1933 by the composer. Therefore the article should probably be moved to Bei Mir Bistu Shein, and the large number of edu pages with the other spelling apparently represent a phonetically more correct and more modern transcription.
This contradicts the message at the link i first posted, which used "Bay Mir Bistu Sheyn" and said it was correcting errors in previous posts, which seems to indicate the claim that the other spelling is wrong. Interestingly this message's claims [and its incorrect comment about German spelling ...Germanized the title changing "sheyn" to "Schoen" (umlauts over the "o") which would produce the incorrect öe instead of the correct ö = oe, and it's also incorrectly capitalised] were not disputed by the previous poster quoted above, who seemed at least as well or better informed. The following two sites seem to prove that the former poster was indeed better informed: [1] and especially [2]. The latter is the most authoritative so far since it quotes the Yiddish Radio Project and even shows the title page. --Espoo 23:58, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for fixing it. Wahkeenah 00:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion, there is no such thing as the "correct" or "incorrect" title, because the most widespread English version of the song indeed was titled "Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen", and it is a fact. The article is on the same song, whatever title we use (Yiddish original or not), so I thought it would be better to keep the most known title as the basic one, and later explain that it was not the original. --Yms 12:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Seems to me like it should be titled "Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen", as I think that's how the Andrews Sisters version was spelled and it's the correct German spelling, ja? Another thing worth pointing out would be the incorrect pronunciation of "Schoen" (or "Schön") as "Shane", a common English mistake as in the song "Danke Schoen", where it is also described at some length (that explanation actually takes up half the article, since the actual lyrics are not in it due to copyright concerns). Wahkeenah 13:19, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

You're probably both right, and i seem to remember a section of WP:MoS that supports this, but i haven't had time to deal with this and to nominate it at WP:RM. The correct German title would be "Bei mir bist du schön" or "Bei mir bist Du schön", but it seems that we'll have to use the Anglicised spelling and capitalisation "Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen" because that's the most commonly used name in English.--Espoo 18:20, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Right name of this song is "BEI MIR BIST DU SCHÖN"...

For a German native the latter doesn't sound convincing since its semantic doesn't seem to make common sense. We should never forgot the fact the original title was Jiddish, not German. If an English translation of the title "To me you are beautiful" was correct, then the correct German translation would be: "Für mich bist Du schön". What makes this convincing regardless the narrow documentation backup is the common sense it makes together with the balance of the text of the original Jiddish song. 199.181.136.59 (talk) 21:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)