Talk:Barnard College

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Contents 1 Neutrality Issues and the Columbia vs. Barnard Rivalry 2 discussion on Columbia University talk page 3 Barnard is not one of Columbia's undergraduate schools 4 Category:Barnard College alumni 5 criticism and controversy

[edit] Neutrality Issues and the Columbia vs. Barnard Rivalry

I do not believe that the standards for neutrality are being met when this page states that, "Nevertheless, some Columbia students and alumnae are unhappy with Barnard's association with Columbia University. As a result, Barnard students are a regular jest for Columbia students. Popular points of insult include the relative intelligence of a Barnard girl vs. a Columbia girl, the "easiness" of Barnard girls, and the typical Barnard girl's eagerness to associate herself with the Columbia name."

It would be understandable if this rivalry were addressed in a subsection detailing the intricate relationship between Columbia University and Barnard College. However, this is certainly not "general information," nor a prominent view held on either campus.

[edit] discussion on Columbia University talk page

Hi, FYI, there is a dispute on the Columbia University talk page about the inclusion of "Barnard jokes" as part of the section on "University Traditions." Additional comments from other editors are welcome. Best, Matan 16:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnard is not one of Columbia's undergraduate schools

I reverted the changes made by 207.237.214.24. Barnard is not one of Columbia's undergraduate schools. The three schools that do fit this criteria are Columbia College, SEAS, and GS. Barnard is an affiliate, like Teachers College.

Barnard's relationship to Columbia is weird; no question about it. Yes, Columbia awards Barnard's (and TC's) degrees. Yes, it's entirely proper for a résumé to read "AB from Barnard College, Columbia University." But no, it's not proper for the author of that résumé to claim that she "went to Columbia" for her undergraduate degree, because Barnard is not a Columbia undergraduate school. Yeechang Lee 18:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Barnard College alumni

Category:Radcliffe College alumni has the Harvard Alumni and Ivy League Alumni categories, but I'm not sure if similar categories belong in the Barnard Alumni category due to Barnard's relationship with Columbia. Does anyone have any input on this? Cornell Rockey 21:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

If Columbia and Barnard ever to merge the way Harvard and Radcliffe did, then yes. Until then, no. Yeechang Lee 01:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect, Yeechang Lee, that is your opinion. You stated earlier that the diplomas are from "Barnard College, Columbia University." As such, Barnard alumna should, and do, belong to the CU alumni category. Best, Matan 17:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

For me, I think this speaks to a lack of a clear explanation of the Columbia-Barnard relationship. The wikipedia article on Barnard gives it about 2 sentances, and it isn't clear at all. Could some one with some understanding of this clear it up? Cornell Rockey 21:21, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It is tricky. As I wrote before, it'd be incorrect for a Barnard grad to say that she "went to Columbia," even though a résumé could properly read "Bachelor of Arts from Barnard College, Columbia University," because she attended Barnard—a separate institution—for her undergraduate education; all Columbia did was to issue the degree. Also, Barnard and Columbia women compete together on the same Ivy League athletic teams despite Barnard's not being a member, thanks to a special exemption.

I still vote "no" on the category-inclusion question, although it is a close call. The closest analogy I can come up with right now (and it's a pretty lame one) is to ask whether someone who graduated from UC Riverside or Irvine can say he "went to Cal." That's technically true in the sense that Riverside, Irvine, and Berkeley are all part of the larger University of California system, but in practice we'd all agree that that's misleading. With Barnard and Columbia, the institutional gulf is even larger; where Riverside, Irvine, and Berkeley are all part of the same university system, Barnard and Columbia are separate schools with separate Presidents, Boards of Trustees, and endowments. Columbia just happens to issue the Barnard degree, that's all.

Bah. While as a guy I definitely did not mind having hordes of spaghetti-strap tank top-wearing Barnard women everywhere around me (2400 Barnard women plus the roughly 50:50 men:women Columbia undergraduate student body; although the engineering school is 20:80, it's only 1000 students total), this whole discussion just underlines how it was a mistake that Barnard turned down the Columbia merger proposal. By all rights there should today be a single "Columbia-Barnard" undergraduate school with Broadway at its heart, as opposed to the baroque arrangement that exists in its place. Yeechang Lee 09:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] criticism and controversy

Someone appears to edit this page on behalf of the college administration. mentions of the El Haj controversy have been vandalized.

There is little point in having articles on colleges on Wikipedia if they are edited and vetted to make contain only the information that the college wants to prblicize. Lida LeClair and Abu El Haj attracted natinal attention. there are probably other scandals.