Talk:Barbara Stanwyck

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Barbara Stanwyck article.
Article policies
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
This article is supported by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed biographical guide to actors and filmmakers on Wikipedia.

Contents

[edit] Minor question on personal life

... (He and Stanwyck eventually became estranged.) ... He being Frank, the husband, or Dion, the son? Can someone who knows clarify the sentence? 74.104.110.56 17:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sexuality: More Gossip on Page

Somebody has been at it again, adding "lesbian" data. Did Stanwyck even meet Greta Garbo?? I have never read of them even being in the same room from a legitimate source. Somebody at wikipedia really needs to watch some of the entries on classic stars because there are people posting all sorts of gossip as fact.

Much of Boze Hadleigh's work has been questioned, as everyone is always dead and he never seems to have a tape recorder around. It's a shame that Wikipedia allows this type of work in, but they do, so there's nothing to be done about it.
No need to rely on Hadleigh, though he's usually right. See Axel Madsen's excellent biography "Stanwyck", Harper Collins, 1994. --Kstern999 19:02, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
As far as Stanwyck meeting Garbo - NO. I worked on the Garbo biography for author Barry Paris, and she and Garbo never met. The Hepburn book states that Garbo and Hepburn had an affair, but in fact, the met only once.Chandler75 16:29, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lesbian Rumor

This is a rumor, it should not be stated as a fact. The allegation does not come from individuals who knew Stanwyck personally but a handful of "books" with authors of questionable accuracy (see the reviews on amazon.com for various comments from multiple readers questioning the accuracy of the books in question.)

I completely agree - it's a widely enough reported rumour for it to be included in the article as a rumour. This needs to be fixed. There are other examples in other articles - for example in the Boze Hadleigh article, Agnes Moorehead is identified as a lesbian, rather than as a rumoured lesbian. We shouldn't be taking such liberties, simply because the dead can't be libeled. I think Hadleigh's books should be viewed with extreme scepticism as source material. Rossrs 11:04, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! I have no problem with acknowledging the homosexuality or bisexuality of stars when it's a given fact (Marlene Dietrich, Montgomery Clift) or there is considerable proof despite denials (James Dean) but I don't believe every rumor means the story is true. Stanwyck should also be taken off of the "Lesbian actors" link at the bottom because at the very least she was bisexual, given her marriages and acknowledged affairs with Robert Wagner, Frank Capra, and other men.

Don't forget Nolan Miller.Lorrobhen (talk) 23:22, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
The problem is that Wikipedia has made it clear that it does not care. It only has to be published and, fact or not, it is therefore verifiable. It's made clear in the rules - it doesn't have to be true.
The problem is, the dead have no rights. I think there needs to be a law that an estate can protect an image as far as making sure there is solid evidence behind published material and make authors and publishers accountable. Look at what has been done to the reputation of Errol Flynn by being called a Nazi. That was very easily debunked, but no publisher fact-checked it. They don't have to - he's dead. The problem is, the stories get bigger and bigger and more exaggerated as time goes on. I frankly at this point don't have any idea how Tyrone Power managed three wives, his mother, his sister, two kids, countless female lovers, and a film and stage career with all the sleeping around he did with men. It's absurd. I'm not saying he didn't have a bisexual relationship along the way, but it cannot possibly be to the extent that it's rumored to be now. And face it - if Mr. Blackwell could have sold books by saying he had Elvis' baby, he would have. An interviewer said to him, "Well, you have an interesting story. And that's exactly what it is. A story." But the dead tell no tales.Chandler75 16:38, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
One of the beefs that I have with the "lesbian" identification is the peculiar standard used for claiming a (deceased and therefore unable-to-answer) celebrity as a "lesbian": a rumoured fling with Joan Crawford outweighs a publicly established lifetime of marriages and love affairs with men and an attempted suicide when her husband had an affair with another man. Somehow, I thought being a lesbian entailed just a little bit more commitment to female homosexuality than that. Certainly I know what would happen if any ordinary woman (or living celebrity) made a claim to being a lesbian with that kind of track record -- remember how Anne Heche got dragged over the coals? And it's interesting how those who base a "lesbian" identification on one or two rumoured flings don't even stop to glance at "bisexual" before they go shooting straight to "lesbian" and all that it implies (this is biphobia, perhaps?). Hell, if a woman doesn't make romantic involvement with both men and women a pattern of her sexual life -- that is, if her involvement with women is limited to an occasional fling that doesn't progress to pairbonding -- I'm not even sure the word bisexual applies. If one or two episodes are sufficient to change a person's very sexual identity ...
In any case, I would say that assigning someone a sexual identity that they never claimed for themselves in life -- or, especially, that they publicly rejected -- falls nicely into the crosshairs of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". --7Kim 20:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 22:16, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I have no problem with Stanwyck being added on the basis of her performance in Double Indemnity. It was a brilliant yet campy performance. And Stanwyck always had a tougher-than-nails presence.

What I have a MAJOR issue with is the emphasis being placed here on her sexuality rather than her career. She had a career spanning sixty years and yet the issue of Robert Taylor prevails.

Cut me a break...are we discussing Barbara Stanwyck's career or her sexuality?

Well it is true that Stanwyck was most likely a lesbian, the title of "gay icon" has nothing to do with her sexual orientation, but the sexual orientation of her fansbase.

[edit] Bisexuality

Stanwyck was at least bisexual, she was known to have had relationships with Helen Ferguson, Joan Crawford and others. Her co-star Capucine indicated that Stanwyck, although always discreet, had a female lover while the film "Walk on the Wild Side", which also starred Jane Fonda. Clifton Webb referred to Stanwyck as "My Favorite American Lesbian". And I don't think anyone ever claimed that Garbo and Stanwyck were lovers. - 216.194.58.195 18:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, some seem to think that they can build their own illusion and POV by removing direct quotes and without discussion here. Doc 02:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

McJonathan-- I am not clear what your edit summary meant, but I have rv User:Demiurge's vandalism. - 216.194.4.2 03:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. No-one knows for sure that Stanwyck was bisexual, and as she is not alive, people are able to make up anything they want about her. Just like Cary Grant warned his wife and daughter, as soon as he was dead, people would take up the most popular and bad rumors about him; either he was gay or cheap. [LD] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.175.77.189 (talk • contribs) 15:31, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The only mention of the possibility in the article is one single quote by Clifton Webb, which is apparently secondhand and may or may not have been tongue-in-cheek. There is no -- zero! -- other reference to homosexuality in the article, and yet this article is included in Category:Lesbian actors. Er, what gives? Since no significant basis is offered in the personal article for the idea that she was lesbian or bisexual, I am taking it on myself to remove this article from Category:Lesbian actors. If anyone wishes to contest that removal, I expect to see both sources for the assertion that she had any same-sex involvements at all and an explanation of why she should be in Category:Lesbian actors rather than Category:Bisexual American actors. --7Kim 08:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: I have difficulty with the sourcing for the Clifton Webb quote. If I read things right, he was quoted in a book that was not by him, nor even about him, but about the leading men of classic Hollywood -- in other words, the source for the article's sole statement about non-heterosexuality comments on her with at least three levels of indirection and multiple layers of filtering and decontextualisation. I'm not going to delete it immediately as I did the categorisation under Category:Lesbian actors, but I must note that this is extremely poor sourcing for a claim, on a sensitive subject, that the subject of the article denied strongly throughout her life. An ISBN number does not a reliable source make. I'm giving it until 10 June, and then it's getting removed in the absence of reasonable, well-supported objection. --7Kim 16:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] So what?

I'm a bit tired of actors and actresses being branded as "gay", "lesbian", or "bisexual". I have never been able to find out exactly how that was supposed to influence their abilities to act. We're not told about their hair colour, or eye colour, so why does it have to be revealed that either there was a rumour or an opinion that anything to do with a sexual practice was important enough to be mentioned? Is it to reassure gay people that gaiety was going on long ago among celebrities, or is it a valid way of shattering an image? I don't really care who did what with what to whom, as I've just simply loved to watch Barbara Stanwyck in a movie, as that was always an interesting story, with a woman playing a great part. Bette Dash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.228.96.16 (talk) 15:38, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

From the tone of your posting, I can see you think being gay is a bad thing ("branded as gay", "shattering an image", etc). To me personally, an actor's sexuality is not important and has little to do with their work. However, repression of sexuality (by Hollywood or any other industry) is a highly relevant topic in this day and age. Not as gossip and tabloid fodder, but more to do with prominence and visibility (or lack thereof). I suggest that if you do not like knowing the personal details of your favourite stars (proven or otherwise) then don't read any kind of biographical details and just keep yourself focused on their work alone. You will enjoy it so much more not knowing anything about them. Incidentally, I have absolutely no idea whether Stanwyck was a lesbian, bisexual, or heterosexual, but I hardly think that gay people need reassurances that "gaiety" (as you call it) was going on long ago. It's already a proven fact that it was. 79.74.111.82 (talk) 00:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals

Something should be said of Stanwyck's involvement with the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals. I'll try to add some info after more research, but if anyone knows anything about this... - AKeen 07:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Doublei.jpg

Image:Doublei.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 01:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers priority assessment

Per debate and discussion re: assessment of the approximate 100 top priority articles of the project, this article has been included as a top priority article. Wildhartlivie (talk) 07:35, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bob Kane?

Bob Kane, the co-creator of Batman was a film producer? --Mike Castle (talk) 20:50, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edits from Banned User HC and IPs

Warning Wikipedia's banning policy states that "Any edits made in defiance of a ban may be reverted to enforce the ban, regardless of the merits of the edits themselves. As the banned user is not authorized to make those edits, there is no need to discuss them prior to reversion."

1) HarveyCarter (talk · contribs) and all of his sockpuppets are EXPRESSLY banned for life.

2) Be on the look out for any edits from these IP addresses:

AOL NetRange: 92.8.0.0 - 92.225.255.255
AOL NetRange: 172.128.0.0 - 172.209.255.255
AOL NetRange: 195.93.0.0 - 195.93.255.255