Talk:Assyrian Neo-Aramaic

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[edit] Revert

I've had to revert this article a number of times because of edits made from a political standpoint. This is an article about Assyrian Neo-Aramaic, not any other language. This is the Neo-Aramaic of Christians (mostly Church of the East) originally from Urmia and eastern Turkey. The language is heavily influenced by Classical Syriac, which is the language of liturgy and some literature in the Church of the East. This article is not supposed to refer to all Neo-Aramaic dialects spoken by Christians and the classical language but just to this distinct group of modern dialects. These dialects are most often represented by General Urmian and the Iraqi Koine. The editor who has been reverting my changes is openly writing from an Assyrian nationalist point of view, which is fine as long as it does not interfere with the overall neutrality of the article. One simple and clear measure of this is the convention that infoboxes for Afro-Asiatic languages are yellow in colour. This editor keeps turning the box white for some reason. Unless the editor can give some rational defence for their actions, they should be persuaded to stop turning articles into their little soapbox. Gareth Hughes 14:25, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] I was the one who edited

Well i am an Assyrian and I know who and who does not speak my language..We assyrians nowadays stand wihtout a country and we are 90 of 100% nationalists..We are about 4-4.5million assyrian speakers and you were writing we were about 210.000 whis is a lie..There are 3 modern Assyrian (Aramean) dialects..Chaldean influed with more arabian words..Suryoyo spoken by the west Assyrians but they refer to call themselves syriacs nowadays and the original Assyrian people which are we.. You made our Assyrian language look like its all Aramean..Dont forget only our church language is Aramean (Assyrian) call it whatever you want but we Assyrians call it Assyrian so I wont accept that strangers from another nation will destroy that for our little and dieing nation..Assyrian neo aramaic it shouldnt be called that..Its only called Assyrian Neo Aramaic on the internet because no Assyrian doesnt know what that is...We know what we talk and what we are fighting for..So please dont edit my changes Garzo..Kind Regards / Youhanna Warda.. Assyria 90 19:35, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Youhanna, thank you for writing, and for introducing yourself. I am a student of Aramaic, and have just returned from a language field trip in eastern Turkey. I have great sympathy for the cause Aramaic-speaking Christians throughout the area. I know some call themselves Suryoye and others Assyrian, but are very much in similar situations. I have heard plenty of firsthand evidence of Saypa/Sayfo to know what horrors were committed against the people. However, I do have a problem with the politicization of linguistic and historic facts. Assyrian nationalists are actually doing their cause a disservice through such actions: no-one is taking the heartfelt rhetoric seriously, and there are issues to be taken seriously here. There is a distinct difference between the liturgical language of the Church of the East and the colloquial language that used to be spoken in the broad area from Mosul to Urmia. Accurate evidence, from linguists working in the field, is that there are around 210,000 fluent speakers of the colloquial language. This does not include the many who speak the liturgical language, or those who speak the dialects centred on Alqosh (that have had a substantially different history, although similar to the Ashiret dialects), or those dialects further afield. I agree that Assyrian Neo-Aramaic isn't a perfect term, but it is accurate. Labelling a whole raft of languages and dialects with very different origins and histories as Assyrian actually makes the issue less clear. I am an Aramaic linguist who has been writing articles for Wikipedia which give a presence to Assyrian/Aramaean/Syriac language. I am qualified and able to make edits here. It is inappropriate of you to judge anyone as incapable of doing so. However, you may be considered to be a bad editor by the community if you continue to make edits that are politically motivated and unencyclopaedic. Your latest brace of edits (diff) readjusted the number of speakers to an unfeasible 4.5 million again, broadened out the geographic distribution and totally removed the lead paragraph which defines what the article is about. You removed also the only referrence in the article, and you keep replacing the Slovak interlanguage link with one that doesn't work. You have heard who I am, and you have heard the catalogue of reasoned complaints about your edits to this article. Can you expalin what you these edits are about? Gareth Hughes 20:23, 31 August 2005 (UTC)


Garzo..I am from south east Turkey (Nort of Assyria)..I was born in Turabdin in Midyat i think you were there when you mean east Turkey..I made this edits because I dont want other nations to see our language is its only here because we are Christians..You make it very Christiand and so on.I am an Christen Orthodox and yes I do belive in God etc..I can read and speak Aramaic..In the Orthodox Church we have studens who can study Aramaic (Assyrian) in our churches and I am one of them.The speakers of Assyrian are estimated to 4.5 million speakers if you disagree just check new fact..I think you were with Suryoye in Turkey.These are also Assyrians but nowadays some of them declare themselves as "Syriacs" and "Aramean"..Soo these changes ive made are because Assyrians does NOT want to see their language in only a Christian view..We are almost all nationalists so we want it from a nationalist view..If you want to do a article about the Assyrian language spoken in Church your welcome but the Assyrian language is made for our people and not our church..Our church has its own language..SOo if you got anymore questions ask me or add me at msn..!!??Assyria 90 16:30, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Youhanna, I know Midyat very well, and I have also spent time researching further east (around Shirnak and Hakkari). I think you misunderstand the subject of this article. There is another article titled Assyrian language, which points readers to more specific articles about the dialects. This article is about Assyrian Neo-Aramaic because it is different from other dialects that might be grouped together as Assyrian. There may be 4.5 millon speakers of Assyrian if you define that broadly enough, but there certainly are not that many speakers of this dialect. My writing comes from scientific study of the numerous dialects of Aramaic, both classical and modern, which have been backed up by field work. I would still like to see some facts to back up your claims. Gareth Hughes 14:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Tell me what facts you want and I will get them. Assyria 90 12:25, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Start with 3.5 million: let's have the demographic break down: where do they live and exactly what dialects do they speak? Have fun trawling round AINA! Gareth Hughes 11:10, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Here you got your sorces there are a lot more but these are enough for now: http://www.aina.org/news/20040620144321.htm http://www.assyriannation.com/history/History.htm http://www.assyrianvote.com/vote/assyrian911.htm

Well I am an Assyrian myself so i can explain the dialects myself theres no need for sorces..We Assyrians are grouped in three stocks..First of all those who call themselves Assyrians..They speak east Assyrian also called ashori or atoraya (atori) then we have the Chaldeans who speak east Assyrian but its more influenced with Arabic and the last dialect is west Assyrians and those who speak it are the nowadays Suryoye. The churches and the dialects have crushed us as a nation..I live in Sweden for now and here we are about 90 000 Assyrians (Assyrians.Suryoye.Chaldeans) together.. In the US we are estimated to a 400.000-600.000 Assyrians and only in Chicago there are 90 000 Assyrians.For some 10 years ago we were about 2.5 million Assyrians in Iraq but today there are only 1.000.000 - 1.500.000 Assyrians left in Iraq.We also have about 700.000 Assyrians in Syria.The rest of the Assyrians are in the west world... And Gareth..I dont travel around AINA I already know everything cause ive been studding this too long and I know a lot about our Assyrian party s since my cousin started one of the most known Assyrian and Syriac party..Sargon 17:11, 2 September 2005 (UTC)Assyria 90