Talk:Asherah

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It seems like reference 4 - the quote about mainstream thought in biblical archaology - is taken completely out of context. In the article linked to, it has absolutely nothing to do with Asherah. Perhaps this should be changed to something less misleading.

146.186.152.51 20:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC) Lauren K.


In this paragraph User:Rickyrab inserted the last italicized line:

In the lunar Islamic calendar, the Day of Ashurah, transliterated as Aashurah, Ashura or Aashoorah, falls on the 10th day of Muharram. On that day, in the year of the Hejira 61 (AD 680), Husayn bin Ali, the grandson of Muhammad was killed by Umayyad forces at the Battle of Karbala (now in Iraq). Still the Day of Aashurah, it is observed as a day of mourning by Shi'ites. Whether or not Ashurah festival has anything to do with Asherah, is unknown.

The point that it was the Day of Asherah, and still is, wasn't made strongly enough, I guess. How about this, then:

In the ancient lunar calendar that has become the Islamic calendar, the Day of Ashurah, transliterated as Aashurah, Ashura or Aashoorah, falls on the 10th day of Muharram. On that day, in the year of the Hejira 61 (AD 680), Husayn bin Ali, the grandson of Muhammad was killed by Umayyad forces at the Battle of Karbala (now in Iraq). Still called the Day of Aashurah, it has been observed ever since as a day of mourning by Shi'ites.

If I tell someone that Friday is "Freya's Day" and that the Crucifixion occured on a Friday, and they say "What does the Crucifixion have to do with Freya?" I'm a little stumped. Wetman 21:18, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, and how is the Muslim holiday (Ashora) connected to the goddess (Asherah)? Excuse me, but I thought Islam was always a monotheistic religion. Rickyrab 23:47, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

User:Jallan informs us that the word for "ten" in Arabic is Aashurah and removes the following text:

"In the lunar Islamic calendar, the Day of Ashurah, transliterated as Aashurah, Ashura or Aashoorah, falls on the 10th day of Muharram. On that day, in the year of the Hejira 61 (AD 680), Husayn bin Ali, the grandson of Muhammad was killed by Umayyad forces at the Battle of Karbala (now in Iraq). Still called the Day of Aashurah, it is observed as a day of mourning by Shi'ites. As for the meaning of Asherah, non-Muslims will be interested to read that Muslims are taught the following:

"The conventional meaning of Ashura in the Shariah refers to the 10th of Muharram-ul-Haraam. In his distinguished book, Ghuniyatut Taalibeen, Sayyiduna Ghaus-ul-Azam, Sheikh Abdul Qaadir Jilani (radi Allahu anhu) writes that the Ulema have a difference of opinion, as to why this day is known as Ashura. Since the reason has been explained in various ways, the consensus of the majority of the Ulema is that it is known as Ashurah because it is the 10th day of Muharram, while certain Ulema say that from the sacred days that Almighty Allah blessed the Ummat-e-Muhammadi with, this day is the 10th most important day, and it is for this reason that it is known as Ashurah. (Ghuniyatut Taalibeen, pg. 428)"

The day sacred to Asherah falls on the tenth of Muharram. Asherah can be disguised as "Aashurah," but only suppression of all references to the fact that these are identical will satisfy Islamist concerns. Asherah is Aashurah, as Makkah is Mecca. Though the connection may be suppressed, we are not fooled. Wetman 14:57, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

I have temporarily removed the following text here to Discussion:It is generally believed that her name is a shortening of the expression Athirat Yamm 'She who walks on the sea'. Names of gods are never shortenings. Quite to the contrary, secondary epithets always make the deity more local or more concrete. Besides, if this etymology were genuine, what would one make of Asherah's connection to Yahweh in the inscriptions at Kuntillet Ajrud, mentioned in the entry? Since Yam is the god of the wild sea, surely Asherah is the Queen or Consort of these other deities. Wetman 16:05, 24 May 2004 (UTC)

Whatever meaning is associated with the name, the name Ashirat Yammi does appear in the Ugaritic texts and the full translation of "Ashirat of the Sea" in books and articles if they mention any interpretation of the name is the one I gave, at least so far as I know. A quick check confirmed it as given on page 4 of John Gibson's Canaanite Myths and Legends and on page 21 of Frank Moore Gross's Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic. The translation can probably be found in almost any book about the northwest Semitic gods or the Ugaritic pantheon. No-one so far as I know has questioned it, simply presenting without any special comment as though self-evident to anyone who can read Ugaritic.

That doesn't mean it is correct. It wouldn't be the first time almost all scholars in a field have been wrong. But unless someone can provide a more recent theory as an alternative, "She who treads on the Sea" belongs in the article as the standard translation accepted by scholars.

As to `Ashurah, stating that it is fact that `Ashurah does not really mean 'ten' and is actually related to Asherah does not make it a fact. I have nothing philosphically against the equation. But to me the suggestion appears to be crank linguistics of a very normal sort: the words look alike therefore there must be a relationship.

I don't know Arabic, other than individual words in literary and linguistic contexts and very small amount of grammar. But I do know some Hebrew, Akkadian and Ugaritic and somewhat about proto-Semitic and the relationships between the Semitic languages. The equation looks wrong.

I could be wrong, of course.

But if anyone thinks the equation is not crank linguistics, then that person should provide evidence that it is not. jallan 03:55, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

I'd like to propose moving the redirect from Qudshu. Qudshu really should redirect to Qetesh, as Qudshu is not the same as Asherah but may just be related. Then the Qetesh article can mention Asherah as a see also. If no objections in a week or so I'll go ahead.Bookgrrl 00:58, 20 May 2006 (UTC) Upon removal from temple mount Asherah and Qadesh were associated. A tossed note at a junkheap in the desert does not confirm any association.

Contents

[edit] Name of Sacred Sea

The sacred sea (lake) upon which Asherah trod was known as Yam Kinneret and is now called Lake Galilee.

Could someone provide a source for this? Thanks! --TimeDog 15:28, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I am very skeptical of the connection to lake Galilee. I can find no other corroboration of this. This is significant since it seems to link Ashera very directly to the miracle in the Christian new testament. If this were the case, wouldn't there be more written on this? Smells fishy, perhaps related to current neo-pagan worship of the goddess, but not archaeological evidence. Unless someone can provide a source for this, this should probably be deleted, or at least clarified. --Solarinus 22:34, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Several other points:

  • I have suggested that Asherah Pole. is merged with this page. Most of what is covered there is covered here but in more detail, and from a slightly more neutral POV.
  • This article seems to gloss over current theories regarding a Deuteronomist censure/suppresion of Asherah, in particular as it regards to the creation story of Genesis and the symbol of the serpent. While this does not have to be represented as fact, or even mainstream thought, it is highly relevant to this subject.
  • For Asherah often a wooden-made rudely carved statue planted on the ground of the house was her symbol, and sometimes a clay statue without legs and stood in the same way. Her idols were found also in forests, carved on living trees, or in the form of poles beside altars that were placed at the side of some roads. This appears to reflect a far more detailed understanding of Judaic Asherah worship than I believed the current evidence supports. This also needs a source or needs to be revised.

Anyway, seems this article has been ignored for a while. I hope I can generate some discussion here. --Solarinus 05:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Asherah Pole and Qudshu

The "Asherah Pole" is named after the goddess, although the jury is still out on what it actually was. It would be appropriate to merge "Asherah Pole" with this article since without the discovery of "Asherah" at Ugarit we would still likely have "groves" as a translation for the Hebrew word.

Qudshu, I agree, is not the same as Asherah. A strong case has been made that this conflation is a modern creation and does not fit the evidence. Sawiggins 14:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)Steve A. Wiggins

I support adding Ashera Pole, go ahead whoever wants to do it - and remove the banner ;) Qudshu is from the same root as holy, qodesh in modern Hebrew. As for the earlier talk of the muslim "Ashura" and Ashera - the two are noy connected. "Asura" (as well as the Hebrew and Arabic words for "ten") begind with an 'ayin. Ashera is with an aleph. Uri

As per Dever (2005) and other sources, there is a close association between the goddess Asherah and the 'pole' or whatever it was. It makes sense to merge these articles. Bondegezou 16:16, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A few minor edits

I made a few minor edits, aimed at combining sections that seem to belong togther, and then combining/moving paragraphs within those sections so that themes are clarified and repetition avoided where possible. Nothing major. But I did make the language a little more assertive than perhaps it was - there's really no dispute at all in scholarly circles about the worship of Ahserah in ancient Israel and the late development of monotheism. Also added a ref to Dever's book. Cheers. PiCo 11:07, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Go ahead

I think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.199.222.142 (talk) 21:16, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cats?

The two-sentence bit at the end about the Ashera cats needs to be either elaborated or deleted. As it is, it's written almost like an advertisement. I just don't understand its relevance other than a similar name. Does it even belong here? TheMadChild (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2008 (UTC)