Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thien Minh Ly

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. With the exception of Potatoswatter, the "keep" opinions do not discuss the applicable inclusion policies and guidelines, or make any other non-weak argument.  Sandstein  17:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thien Minh Ly

Thien Minh Ly (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Although this article was just created, I am bringing thhis straight to afd because it was just recently delted through a PROD. I'll repeat the original prodder's concerns - this article is problematic due to WP:MEMORIAL and Wikipedia:Notability (criminal acts) brewcrewer (yada, yada) 05:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Keep In what sense do you mean "problematic"? Although the article should be entitled Murder of Thien Minh Ly per WP:N/CA. Potatoswatter (talk) 07:12, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Problematic in the sense that the article violates WP:NOT#MEMORIAL and problematic in the sense that the crime doesn't meet the proposed notability guideline of criminal acts. This proposal is pretty much an outgrowth of the regular notability standards, and require "significant coverage in sources with national or global scope." --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 16:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Google turns up endless sources. This crime has been used as a case study in academia and a documentary subject in popular culture. I think the lack of national news coverage online is due to 1996 being slightly early for most news archives. MEMORIAL discourages people with WP:COI, who know of the subject besides through secondary sources, which absolutely does not apply here. [1], [2], [3], just to pick and choose. Potatoswatter (talk) 00:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep In the original article, I failed to mention (and receive confirmation) that Ly's case was the first hate crime to have a conviction in California, which is a mistake that has been amended in this version. Personally, I think that's notable enough - if not, please tell me. Miyuster (talk) 16:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. But the article ought to be renamed Murder of ..., as above. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:01, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. WP:NOTMEMORIAL and not notable other than being a murder victim. The keeps are based on this being the first conviction under California's 'hate crimes' law, but wouldn't that make this a WP:COATRACK article? If this case is notable mention of it belongs in an article in California's 'hate crimes' law and not a bio. KleenupKrew (talk) 00:16, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 16:17, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 16:17, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein  10:15, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. The coverage in reliable sources is essentially trivial, and those sources which do exist largely repeat the same short grab or two. I get two references to Thien Minh Ly on JSTOR, however one is simply a footnote about the video. There also remain problems with the article as it stands, such as the copyvio under "Charges" so obvious that it still refers to the criminal case in the future tense as if the individuals charged haven't even been convicted yet. If "first convicted" of a particular crime is enough to justify an article on here then that makes a potentially insanely long list for California alone, let alone if we continue the precedent across Victoria, Australia; Cape Province, South Africa and Ñeembucú, Paraguay, etc. etc. Debate (talk) 11:03, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
I've improved the first paragraph with a better reference, and amended the "first" to first capital sentence for a hate crime in California (rather than "conviction" as was there previously) per the reference. Debate (talk) 11:27, 1 June 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.