Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nelle Wilson Reagan

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Nomination withdrawn by nominator. Bduke (talk) 20:36, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nelle Wilson Reagan

Nelle Wilson Reagan (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Deletion nomination This is an article someone has put much work into, however I see no evidence of the subject as passing WP:BIO, in that they are a major part of reliable sources. The entire article here is about her importance in relation to her son (President Ronald Reagan), and it is referenced entirely to biographies about President Reagan. It does not appear that she has any notability on her own. It may happen that a relative of a President recieves independent coverage, but I see no evidence that this woman has. Jayron32|talk|contribs 21:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - Well, we have Dorothy Walker Bush, mother of President George H.W. Bush; Gerald Rudolff Ford, step-father of President Gerald Ford; Lillian Carter, mother of Jimmy Carter; Virginia Clinton Kelley. mother of Bill Clinton -- we have all these but Ronald Reagan's mother cannot be kept? I do not know that Dorothy Bush, Gerald Ford, Sr., and Virginia Clinton were notable except that they were the parents of presidents. But Nelle Reagan actually was notable on her own. The book God and Ronald Reagan by Paul Kengor (2004) devotes the first 48 pages to Nelle Reagan; in those 48 pages is Nelle's life story. It clearly shows that she was extremely influential in Dixon, Illinois through the workings of her church. As I wrote (and cited) in the biography, some members of the congregation actually wondered whether or not she had the power to heal because of her strong convitions in prayer. Although not extremely famous today, Nelle Reagan left her mark on the town and was a very prominent person in the raising of her son. There would be a double standard if this article is deleted. Thanks, Happyme22 (talk) 23:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Here we go again. The tendency so far has been to recognize that being the parent of an American president (or other important historical figure) is, in and of itself, notable, if for no other reason than because of the influence that they had on the person's values. There are, of course, some who believe that parents had no influence whatsoever in why they are who they are, but I think that's a minority viewpoint. Mandsford (talk) 23:22, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
• Delete I disagree with the claim that notability of a son travels backward through time and makes the ancestors notable. She fails WP:BIO. My grandmother had a greater influence on her town than this lady did and is likewise non-notable. Another poor argument for keeping is that "Other stuff exists." Each article must stand on its own merit. Edison (talk) 01:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Then Dorothy Walker Bush, Gerald Rudolff Ford, Lillian Carter, and Virginia Clinton Kelley supposedly fail WP:BIO too, among others (again, double standard?). As Mandsford said, there was a concensus that decided to keep articles of presidential parents. Plus, as I've stated above, Nelle Wilson Reagan is notable within herself and I find it plain rude to say your grandmother had more influence; though it is sarcasim, it is not topical and therefore has no impact on this woman's notability. Happyme22 (talk) 01:18, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, all of those articles except Clinton were put up for deletion. Carter passed as keep but Bush and Ford were closed as no consensus. So I wouldn't say there was a consensus that they are notable. Rigadoun (talk) 07:08, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

It is a false comparison. Ron's mother died 18 years before he was President, and years before he was even a Governor. Therefore she received no press coverage or interviews as a "Presidential mother," unlike the present President's mother (who was also a "First Lady") or Clinton's mother, who also lived into the Presidency. Mrs. Reagan was non-notable during her lifetime, and after her death is (so far) only referenced in a couple of books by opr about President Reagan. Lillian Carter received much press coverage as a President's mother (and for her Peace Corps work) during her lifetime. Please do not resort to the "WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS" argument to try to keep an article about a non-notable person. There is no such consensus as claimed that all Presidential parents (or children,or siblings, or grandparents, or grandchildren, or nieces or nephews) are inherently notable. Edison (talk) 02:20, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

We are not trying to say that children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces or nephews of presidents are important; again, not relevant to this discussion. This is Reagan's mother, not aunt, uncle, neice, nephew, grandmother, grandfather, grandson, or granddaughter - it's his mom. And in the books The Raising of a President and First Mothers, Nelle is featured on the cover of both. As stated below, she does pass WP:BIO in that there are things written about her. And just as Lillian Carter recieved media attention, Nelle Reagan recieved media attention when she lived in Dixon; it was not television as the TV did not exist, but she was written about in the newspapers and on radio due to her work with the church and charity (see Paul Kengor's God and Ronald Reagan, pages 6-11). Happyme22 (talk) 02:46, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. No notability of her own, and being related to someone notable doesn't transfer notability. WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS isn't a valid reason to keep. Ravenna1961 (talk) 01:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but have you not read my points above regarding her own nobility? There are plenty more in the article. Happyme22 (talk) 02:10, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

• Keep She does pass WP:BIO. In addition to what Happyme22 mentioned, she has profiles in this book and this book, and I'm sure there's a slew of material available elsewhere. True, historians wouldn't have cared about her if it weren't for her son, but plenty of information about her exists, so why not let people have that information? Zagalejo^^^ 04:08, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
• Keep There appear to be plenty of reliable sources available. JavaTenor (talk) 04:12, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletions. —User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 03:59, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
• Withdraw Nomination I withdraw the nomination, though with the qualification that it is NOT because of her status as someones mother, but rather due to the additional references provided above. The article SHOULD BE EXPANDED to include the information in those references. While her status as a president's mother MAY HAVE led to the existence of sources, it is the EXISTANCE OF THOSE SOURCES, not her status as Reagan's mom, that leads to her notability. There may very well be other mothers of presidents with reliable sources that discuss them, and there may be other mothers of presidents that LACK THOSE SOURCES. If those sources do not exist, being the mother of a president does not make them exist. However, this one particular person has the references to write an article from, so I see no reason any more to delete the article. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 19:33, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.