Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mufti Mukarram Ahmad

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Please note that the reasons for deletion here can be fixed with cleanup, article so tagged. Keeper | 76 17:23, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mufti Mukarram Ahmad

Mufti Mukarram Ahmad (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

To start with, this article was initially a copy paste job from other sources as was noted here. Beyond that, it is currently laden with so many unsourced claims, peacock terms, honorifics, and POV breaches that when the article was fixed to be in line with WP:NPOV, WP:BLP, and other policies it was too small to even justify an article about this individual as may be seen here.
Regarding the "sources" provided, none of them actually establish Mufti Mukarram Ahmad's notability. There are nine total:

  • a link in the lead to an eight sentence news story in The Hindu which contains one single quote from Ahmad (though the article itself is about something else entirely).
  • a link under a section called "source" to an archived BBC news story from almost six years ago interviewing a handful of individuals about Muslim life in India, which contains two brief sentences from Ahmad along with a professor and a student.
  • another link under the "source" section, to a page selling about a dozen books by this person, in violation of rules regarding commercial links.
  • under the "external links" section, an eight sentence news clip mentioning Ahmad's opposition to Israel in an unknown Indian news website.
  • a ten sentence news story from another unknown Indian news site back from 2006 where Ahmad talks about Saddam Hussein's execution.
  • a link to a more substantial news story from almost two years ago that literally just mentions the guy's name once in passing among half a dozen other imams. Doesn't say anything about him, just lists him as one of many imams.
  • the same exact article from The Hindu found in the article's lead, posted again under "external links".
  • a 2003 report from an NGO called "Global PeaceWorks" which mentions Ahmad's name in a list with half a dozen other religious leaders in India. Like before, doesn't really say anything about him except that he's an imam.
  • a site listen as his "Home Page" which doesn't even seem to mention him at all.

Honestly, it seems as though someone has created an article for some random Imam they happen to like and are grasping for straws to find any mention of him on the internet to bolster its notability. There are thousands of other individuals like this that you can find in Muslim countries and while i'm sure Mr. Ahmad is a good person, a few mentions of him in India-based news sites here and there really isn't proof of notability beyond any other imam anywhere else. Normally this wouldn't be a big deal, however lately there has been a large abundance of imams from India and Pakistan, especially those associated with the Barelwi movement, which articles created for them and little to no sourcing or signs of notability. MezzoMezzo (talk) 17:57, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Very Strong Keep-Mufti Mukarram is not mere an Imam but a Shahi(The Royal) Imam of Shahi Mosque at Fatehpuri.Fatehpuri is Second most reputed mosque in India after Jama Masjid in terms of Decisions on Moon sighting[1] or

representing Muslims in different fields. Former Popular president of India APJ Kalam has Offered Eid Prayers two times here in Fatehpuri Mosque due to Strong appeal of Mufti Mukarram in the mass[2].

  • He is always Voice of Muslims on all Important Issues[3]
  • Find him here He is Often quoted in Press due to his importance in the Community.Most Importantly major Urdu news papers Prints all his Sermons every Friday.
  • The Home Page is of his family which Proves that he is Imam by Inheritence in this Mughal Mosque.He is here for almost 30 years.site says that ,At present the grand son of Mufti-i-Azam, Allama, Dr. Mufti Muhammad Mukarram Ahmed is the Imam of Fatehpuri Mosque and Mufti (the jurist of Islamic law) in Delhi[4].
  • fatehpuri Mosque[5] .there are hundreds of Links which Undoubtedly establishes his notability and Moreover a person may be More notable despite less presence on net and he is notable .Just call some friend from india and ask about him.
  • Other editors have look at mezzo's editing as he is hyperactive editor of Salafi/Wahabi sect and has consumed time in deleting material of Other's ideology.Shabiha (t • c) 06:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I have told you multiple times not to call me a Wahhabi as it is a derogatory term, to the point where you had to be banned temporarily by the admins. Consider this a warning. Keep this focused on discussion of the article. MezzoMezzo (talk) 12:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Comment I've noticed so many of these non-notable pages created by User:Shabiha, and find many of their edit summaries baffling and sometimes insulting. I remain as ever, a non-believer and irreligious heathen. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 19:16, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I have noticed the exact same thing. Are your two cents support for deletion? MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:17, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete suspiciously POV. Xxanthippe (talk) 09:24, 26 January 2008 (UTC).
  • Keep-I found it needs some Improvement but it needs to be kept.Mufti sb is notable person and article about him should not be deleted.Msoamu (talk) 18:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete as per User:Xxanthippe. Poor Mr Rushdie :( Gareth E Kegg (talk) 14:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete not notable.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete fails notability and is full of BLP violations. RMHED (talk) 22:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Comments-I have no more to say but just Lookhere Can a Non Notable person write 25 Volumes of Encyclopedia of Islam and if yes than thousands of pages on wikipedia deserves to be Deleted. I am proud to say that he is not famous and Notable by websites among masses but due to his works ..
  • Article may lacks some Sources it may need some Improvement .Just google him and find how many sites of news papers are quoting him.

Shabiha (t 15:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

    • Comment The fact that his books are out of print probably counts against claims of notability. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 18:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
  • keep Looks like one should almost certainly be able to find reliable sources about him given what he has done (why didn't anyone explain above to the anyone that that was what we needed?). To be very clear for anyone looking what we need to keep this article are non-trivial, independent, reliable sources that talk about him. As to the other matters, the BLP material can be removed and the non so good English can be dealt with with clean up rather than deletion. JoshuaZ (talk) 15:32, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep I think he list of publications at [6] is sufficient for notability. That they are out of print makes no difference whatsoever. Notability is permanent. However, the encyclopedia of Islam referred to above is a 19th century work, obviously by someone else with a somewhat similar name, according to the entry in the British Library Catalog. [7]. Amazon records are not reliable. DGG (talk) 18:40, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Comments The first link seems to just be quoting him in one line. The second and third are more brief quotes in the same unknown site I mentioned above. MezzoMezzo (talk) 02:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep - per JoshuaZ and DGG's notability assertions. BLP vios can be removed, they don't require deletion. dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 09:19, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.