Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fergus O' Hare

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus. Stifle (talk) 13:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fergus O' Hare

Fergus O' Hare (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Autobiographical article, the subject of which does not seem to be notable. A Google search finds five references to Fergus O' Hare, two of which are Wikipedia articles (one is a redirect to the page under discussion), one which seems to refer to a Broadway actor, one which is a personal message on a Bebo page and one which may be referring to the subject of this article as it pertains to North Belfast 1973-82 election results. One reference referred to in the article (www.ark.ac.uk/elections73-81lgbelfast.htm) results in a page not found and the other (www.coisceim.ie) is entirely in Irish. LittleOldMe (talk) 09:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Comment Hi, have you tried anyone over at WP:IR? There may be someone there who may know more and can add to this article?--Starrycupz (talk) 12:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment Googling his name in Irish gives a bit more information. He has been intervied by RTE and the Andersonstown News on Irish Language and Northern-Irish civil rights; and appears to currently be in charge of an Irish language radio station (Radio Failte). Still, scant information at best though! Fribbler (talk) 13:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep: He played an important part in the bringing down of Stormont.Harrypotter (talk) 22:41, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete unless wikipedia is going to include every schoolteacher in the world who has been elected to a local body and who has been published.86.42.197.145 (talk) 14:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 16:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete as above, proof of notability is severely lacking. A local celebrirty perhaps. But much too local Fribbler (talk) 17:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. If any of the organisations he helped found is notable, then maybe, but few if any of them seem to be. --Helenalex (talk) 03:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Neutral, leaning to keep if I can steel myself to say that in cases like this, the guidelines are broken. The article suggests someone who might meet our notability criteria, but there is no sign of the substantial coverage in reliable sources. However, this sort of article reveals a massive structural bias in the notability guidelines. O'Hare is claimed to have had a long track record of important roles in the civil society of Northern Ireland through a period of turmoil in that society; he was not necessarily front-page news, but as a co-founder of two significant organisations, his role was not trivial. However, if he had just once been brought on as substititute in a rugby or football match at a senior amateur level and was known for absolutely nothing else than that half-hour of ball-kicking, this AFD would probably be closed as a speedy keep. For the last two weeks, I have been tracking all new stub-tagged articles added under Category:Ireland, and half of them are sportspeople, many of them miserable one-line sub-stubs referenced only to a database, many of them destined to remain permastubs. There is quite enough systemtic bias in wikipedia arising from our contributor profile, but it is ridiculous that we are adding to that by guidelines which allow the retention of articles on people whose only apparent is source is a name in a list of players, while an article like this slips through gaps. We have references which tell us that O'Hare chaired a national campaign (having been a founder of another), was a city councillor, a school headmaster, manager of a pioneering radio station, and author of two books, but because he apparently didn't do enough self-promotion to get a news feature article, our guidelines say the article should be deleted. Yet if O'Hare had done a bit less scholarship and put on football boots instead, he'd be a clear keep. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
    • Keep per my rant above, now that SeoR has confirmed I haven't entirely lost my reason! :)
      I'm also concerned by the nominator's complaint that one the google hits was "entirely in Irish". O'Hare has written a scholarly book in Irish, so that's unsurprising, and I hope that the nom was not implying that Irish-language sources are somehow to be discounted in assessing notability. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep - as a rather new user, I have had similar concerns to those outlined immediately above. Many local figures of note achieve little traceable publicity (local newspapers rarely have nice online archives) while (no offence, all relative) trivial "celebrities" and sportspeople get multiple "hits." This is an example of someone who has done a great deal, and should be here. Having, as BrownHairedGirl, if to a lesser extent, waded through hundreds of such stubs / database-entry folk, etc., I think this is a clear case for flexibility. If the machine needs feeding, I know where I could find dozens to hundreds of better candidates, but I would rather keep most and hope to, even sometimes help to, see them grow. SeoR (talk) 14:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep His election to Belfast City Council, and headmastership of the first Irish language school in NI, are actually fairly notable, some other matters aren't trivial. PatGallacher (talk) 21:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Note This article was created as a duplicate of Fergus O'Hare (note the absence of the space after the apostrophe). This AFDed copy (the one with the space in "O' Hare") of article has been expanded, so if it is kept it should be moved to Fergus O'Hare. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Merge into Fergus O'Hare - created by the same editor and very similar in content to this of an older version of this article, but has the benefit of a correctly spaced title. Agree with BHG and PatGallacher that - provided the claims can be referenced - they do enough to demonstrate notability to me. Warofdreams talk 15:52, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment As a new user, I'm not sure if I can change my vote, but after hearing many arguments in favour of keeping; I'm converted. I have seen so many one-line articles for Finn Harps' under 18's goalkeepers etc. that Mr. O'Hír's article has much more reason to exist. I did a quick straw poll of my family, and both my parents knew of him. (we are irish of course :-) ) BHG, as far as I can see, is right, as always (from what I've seen). My delete vote was based on a strict interpretation of the rules which, in reality, should not be as strict as to be unreasonable; The one problem is that the artcle appears to be autobiographical. But were it to stay, I'd be willing (as would others i'd imagine) to edit it from a neutral POV! Fribbler (talk) 00:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, you can change your vote. Just use <s> and </s> tags to strike through it. Warofdreams talk 02:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
And you are correct that the rules should be ignored when it is sensible to do so. As nominator I too have been persuaded and am in favour of keeping the article. LittleOldMe (talk) 11:05, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete or merge into some other page.Red Hurley (talk) 23:28, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.