User talk:Arturico

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[edit] About the SUN study article and Macrakis

This is the letter I wrote to Macrakis. He proposed that article for deletion. However, I found it quite interesting because it showed an important study about life styles, mediterranean diet, and health, an important topic right now.

"If you had taken some time reading up on the SUN study in Pubmed you would have found all the citations you wanted. But I notice that you are too busy writing cooking stuff articles and that you spend the little time you have left proposing the deletion of articles that others write ( and I afraid you do not well understand).--Arturico 19:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)"

I think also that Wikipedia has tremendous potential, but it is also discouraging to see how much effort we have to spend to deal with people that know nothing about science but like to give their opinions.

Anyway, science continues despite of their help, thanks God.

--Arturico 19:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Arturico, this has little to do with science and much to do with Wikipedia editorial policies. You are no doubt familiar with the editorial policies of scientific journals which (among other things) require that papers be original (not published elsewhere before), that anonymous referees judge their quality, that they cite their sources, etc., etc. Well, Wikipedia, despite perhaps appearing to new users like an anarchy, has its policies, too, though they are very different from those of scientific journals. We are all very happy to have you contributing here at Wikipedia, but you should learn the rules. Unfortunately, you managed to violate quite a few of them in writing the SUN Study article.

The SUN study may or may not be worth including in Wikipedia. My degree is in computer science, not epidemiology, so, as you correctly say, I really am not competent to judge. The article itself, however, should give enough information that other editors (a bit like journal editors reading referee reports) can evaluate it.

Specifically, the issues here were that

  • the text was essentially block-copied from text written by the authors of the study, a violation of policy WP:Copyright violations
  • the person who added the article (you, under a different user name) was affiliated with the study (and didn't disclose that), therefore not a neutral third party, a violation of policy WP:Conflict of interest
  • there was no indication in the body of the article itself that the study was notable (in the Wikipedia sense), a violation of policy WP:Notability
  • no outside sources were given for the information, a violation of policy WP:Reliable sources

It is not up to me to find the indications of notability of the SUN study. It is up to you, as the editor of the article. And in fact all of the above issues could have been dealt with. Assuming that the SUN study is in fact notable, I look forward to reading an article about it on Wikipedia in the future. --Macrakis 19:47, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

As Sherlock Holmes you would be a bad one.

  • First, My name is Arturo Navarro, so I can not be Jrpvaldi at the same time. However, I know him well, because we were born in the same town. So you guessed wrong. Unfortunately for you, I did not violate any Wikipedia rule.
  • Second: You assume a great risk saying that the text was block-copied. You should prove that right now. Do you renember the wikipedia policie of assuming good faith?. I think you should. Do you want to talk about violations of the Wikipedia rules now?
  • If I renember well, I added to the article the search in Pubmed, where there are listed 16 articles about the SUN project findings, some of them cited more than 20 times by other authors. If Pubmed is not a reliable outside source, could you tell me what it is?

I wish you the best with your wiki-recipes. And be sure you will talk about the SUN project again, because it is science. --Arturico 20:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about confusing you with Jrpvaldi -- he changed his user name and for some reason I thought it was to Arturico.

The text was indented in such a way as to indicate quotation, but no source was given. The style of the text was also that of a self-description, if I remember correctly (the text is no longer available). It is common for institutions (universities, companies, etc.) to put up self-description materials like this without realizing what WP policy is. When we see that sort of thing, we delete it. In the case of the SUN Study article, that would have left nothing.

I don't remember the Pubmed part -- that must have been added after I put up the Request for Deletion. That is certainly a reasonable thing to do.

I do apologize to you and Valdi for not having been more patient. I should not have bitten the newcomers, but helped you understand WP's procedures. --Macrakis 22:25, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

He is a truly gentleman indeed. --Arturico 02:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What the SUN study was about

The SUN Study ( Seguimiento Universidad de Navarra), established by Dr. Miguel Angel Martinez Gonzalez in 1999, is an open-enrollmentcohort in Spain, consisting of 16,390 university graduates as of summer 2006. The project started at the Department of Preventive Medicine and Public Health of the University of Navarra, and other universities began to collaborate later (University of Santiago de Compostela, University of Cantabria, University of Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, University of Zaragoza).

The main characteristic of the study is the permanently open recruitment, allowing continuous growth for an ever-increasing sample. Participants are recruited through collaborations with alumni and professional associations throughout the country ( for example, Universidad de Navarra Alumni Association, regional associations of Physicians, Nurses, Pharmacists, Dentists, and Engineers). In the beginning, the initial focus on diet, and its impact on disease prevention, was broadened to encompass certain lifestyle issues and other diseases beyond just [[cardiovascular disease]] and cancer. Thus, a multipurpose cohort was set up that would allow assessment of other conditions such as obesity, hypertension, diabetes, or injuries, mainly those related to traffic. Accordingly, a group of multidisciplinary researchers with complementary expertises share the management of the cohort. The project has been publicly funded by Spanish agencies including the Spanish Ministry of Health and the Government of Navarra (Autonomous Government Department of Health). In addition, the success of the SUN project is largely due to the help of the PhD candidates who were working on analyses of the cohort as part of their doctoral work at the initial stages of the cohort launching.

  • Findings so far

The most comprehensive findings to date from the SUN project relate to the health effects of the Mediterranean diet. However, research has been expanded to include: accidents and injuries, nutrition and fertility, depression, tobacco, and alcohol consumption.

It is conceivable that the high consumption of olive oil may explain the lower blood pressure levels and relatively low prevalence of hypertension found in Spain. This effect is due to a high supply of energy coming from the monounsaturated fatty acids found in olive oil. Overall dairy consumption (including both low-fat and whole-fat products) was associated with a lowered risk of hypertension.

    • Mediterranean Food Pattern and predictors of weight change:

Although average body weight and body mass index of participants increased during follow-up regardless of their food pattern, overall weight gain was lower among those with a higher adherence to an a priori defined Mediterranean Food Pattern, as well as among those who increased their adherence to the Mediterranean Food Pattern after follow-up. A high baseline consumption of olive oil that did not increase during follow-up was found to be associated with a lower likelihood of weight gain. However, participants with a high baseline of olive oil consumption that did increase during follow-up were found to have a slightly increased risk of overweight or of obesity. That shows that a high amount of olive oil consumption is not associated with higher/considerable weight gain nor with a higher risk of becoming overweight or obese in the context of the Mediterranean Food Pattern. It is interesting to note that the same data set that did not demonstrate an association between olive oil consumption and weight gain did demonstrate a higher risk of weight gain associated with the consumption of soda and fast food.

    • Others:

The SUN study also has important conclusions on other health issues. For example, when examining tobacco use in the cohort, the prevalence of smoking was higher in women who had obtained less time-consuming university degrees. In particular, the above average prevalence of smoking among female nurses is cause for concern.

  • Strengths and weaknesses
    • The SUN’s most important strength is its dynamic participation.

Since it is an open cohort, the number of participants is constantly increasing, leading to more powerful results. As the cohort increases, it becomes easier to engage other institutions to collaborate and invite their graduate members to participate in the study. The SUN’s high retention rate is another of its strengths; taking into account their response to either the 2-year, the 4-year or the 6-year follow-up questionnaires, 98% of participants have been followed-up through the use of mailed questionnaires. A further strength is the geographic diversity of participants living throughout Spain. This enables an evaluation of the cohort with the assurance that a wide variation in lifestyle and dietary patterns is represented. The broad disciplinary range of expert knowledge by the research team (e.g. in the fields of epidemiology, medicine, pharmacy, nutrition, biostatistics, informatics engineering) provides a multifaceted perspective in the management and evaluation of the data. Furthermore, the relationship between the research team and participants has proven to be valuable. In order to gain and uphold a high level of trust, we maintain close contact with participants through regular newsletters, the project website, telephone calls, and personal replies to all queries.

    • The disadvantage of this study, is that the sample is not representative of the total

population. As the educational level of our participants is above average, this may affect the data on issues such as diet and physical activity. However, people who have similar lifestyles should have comparable health effects, regardless of educational level. Another potential limitation is the way the data is collected in this study. Self-report data collection is more prone to result in false reporting of information, as compared with other methods. However, the use of graduate participants was meant to improve this as it has been shown that graduate students are less likely to self report falsely due to their higher education level. Several validation studies have been conducted, to date, that confirm such validity.

  • Articles published in medical journals:
    • Alonso A, Beunza JJ, Bes-Rastrollo M, Pajares RM, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: Vegetable protein and fiber from cereal are inversely associated with the risk of hypertension in a Spanish cohort. Arch Med Res 2006, 37(6):778-786.
    • Alonso A, Beunza JJ, Delgado-Rodriguez M, Martinez JA, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: Low-fat dairy consumption and reduced risk of hypertension: the Seguimiento Universidad de Navarra (SUN) cohort. Am J Clin Nutr 2005, 82(5):972-979.
    • Alonso A, Beunza JJ, Delgado-Rodriguez M, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: Validation of self reported diagnosis of hypertension in a cohort of university graduates in Spain. BMC Public Health 2005, 5:94.
    • Alonso A, de la Fuente C, Martin-Arnau AM, de Irala J, Martinez JA, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: Fruit and vegetable consumption is inversely associated with blood pressure in a Mediterranean population with a high vegetable-fat intake: the Seguimiento Universidad de Navarra (SUN) Study. Br J Nutr 2004, 92(2):311-319.
    • Alonso A, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: Olive oil consumption and reduced incidence of hypertension: the SUN study. Lipids 2004, 39(12):1233-1238.
    • Alonso A, Segui-Gomez M, de Irala J, Sanchez-Villegas A, Beunza JJ, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: Predictors of follow-up and assessment of selection bias from dropouts using inverse probability weighting in a cohort of university graduates. Eur J Epidemiol 2006, 21(5):351-358.
    • Bes-Rastrollo M, Sabate J, Gomez-Gracia E, Alonso A, Martinez JA, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: Nut consumption and weight gain in a Mediterranean cohort: The SUN study. Obesity (Silver Spring) 2007, 15(1):107-116.
    • Bes-Rastrollo M, Sanchez-Villegas A, de la Fuente C, de Irala J, Martinez JA, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: Olive oil consumption and weight change: the SUN prospective cohort study. Lipids 2006, 41(3):249-256.
    • Beunza JJ, Martinez-Gonzalez MA, Serrano-Martinez M, Alonso A: [Incidence of Hypertension in a Cohort of Spanish University Graduates: The SUN Study]. Rev Esp Cardiol 2006, 59(12):1331-1334.
    • Garcia de Albeniz XA, Guerra-Gutierrez F, Ortega-Martinez R, Sanchez-Villegas A, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: [Smoking among a cohort of Spanish university graduates. The SUN Project]. Gac Sanit 2004, 18(2):108-117.
    • Martinez-Gonzalez MA: The SUN cohort study (Seguimiento University of Navarra). Public Health Nutr 2006, 9(1A):127-131.
    • Martinez-Gonzalez MA, Lopez-Fontana C, Varo JJ, Sanchez-Villegas A, Martinez JA: Validation of the Spanish version of the physical activity questionnaire used in the Nurses' Health Study and the Health Professionals' Follow-up Study. Public Health Nutr 2005, 8(7):920-927.
    • Sanchez-Villegas A, Bes-Rastrollo M, Martinez-Gonzalez MA, Serra-Majem L: Adherence to a Mediterranean dietary pattern and weight gain in a follow-up study: the SUN cohort. Int J Obes (Lond) 2006, 30(2):350-358.
    • Sanchez-Villegas A, De Irala J, Martinez-Gonzalez MA: [The Mediterranean diet and cardiovascular disease: results of a pilot study from the SUN project (University of Navarre Follow-Up Study)]. Rev Med Univ Navarra 2002, 46(3):9-16.
    • Sanchez-Villegas A, Delgado-Rodriguez M, Martinez-Gonzalez MA, De Irala-Estevez J: Gender, age, socio-demographic and lifestyle factors associated with major dietary patterns in the Spanish Project SUN (Seguimiento Universidad de Navarra). Eur J Clin Nutr 2003, 57(2):285-292.
    • Sanchez-Villegas A, Martinez-Gonzalez MA, Toledo E, de Irala-Estevez J, Martinez JA: [Relative role of physical inactivity and snacking between meals in weight gain]. Med Clin (Barc) 2002, 119(2):46-52.

In order to obtain additional information beyond what is discussed in this article, interested readers may visit the SUN’s website.

[edit] Wikipedia:Association of Members' Advocates/Requests/March 2007/Arturico

Hi Arturico. I am interested in looking into your case. I note that the article at the centre of the dispute has been deleted. I also note that it was deleted with very few votes, and I'm sorry that you didn't get an earlier response to your request for help, as another vote for keeping the article would have been enough. Anyway. Come chat with me on my talk page, or by email. Let's see what we can do to restore your faith in Wikipedia. Regards SilkTork 19:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Many thanks

Hello Steve. I appreciate your attention. Macrakis ad I got a little misunderstanding, but he sent me a very polite message later. I am not upset anymore and I think there are a lot of nice people around Wikipedia. Talking about the SUN study article, I did not write in it except some fixes about the bibliography, because I considered it of interest because it was about a topic people want to know nowadays ( health related styles of life, diet, and so on). The problem was that the guy that wrote it at first seemed to be related to it, and that was why it was proposed for deletion. Well, the article looked well-written, perhaps a bit long (for my taste), but it deserved a second chance. Anyway, I will continue contributing to Wikipedia in english in whatever I will be able to (considering my limited english expression), and definitely I will to Wikipedia in spanish. I wish you the best in your life. --Arturico 14:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Would you like me to close the case now? SilkTork 20:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC) Yes, please. --Arturico 21:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In the meantime:

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If you have any questions or problems, no matter what they are, leave me a message on User talk:SilkTork. Or, please come to the Wikipedia Boot Camp, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

We're so glad you're here! SilkTork 19:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)