Talk:Amorite

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Amorite (Egyptian Amurri, Assyrian Amurra or Martu (where? how are these confident identifications arrived at?) is a term (terms should be in quotes) given by the Israelites to the greatest portion (who else then is involved?) of earlier (earlier? than the arrival of the Hebrews probably) highland mountaineer, or hillmen, descendants of Canaan (Gen. 14:7) who inhabited that land. (is this mythic genealogy or ethography or geography or what?) In early Babylonian inscriptions all western lands including Syria and Palestine, were known as "the land of the Amorites." (this could make a good opening statement, if we knew what "early" means) The Amorites were warlike mountain people. They are represented on the Egyptian monuments with fair skins, light hair, blue eyes, (fair skins and blue eyes on "the Egyptian monuments"?) aquiline noses, and pointed beards. (but what are they wearing? but what are they doing? are they prisoners? are they bringing tribute? to whom? Middle Kingdom?) In the Bible, (it's not a book, it's a library) they are supposed (who is doing the supposing? described as? pictured as?) to have been a powerful people of great stature "like the height of the cedars," (good quotes need sources) who had occupied the land east and west of the Jordan river; their king, Og, being described as the last "of the remnant of the giants" (so was the ancestral Canaan a giant?) (Deut. 3:11). What's the actual information here? How does one edit this material? Is anyone else interested? Wetman 03:24, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Wetman, see the original version of this page at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Amorite&oldid=1421610. It looks like the original source is probably Eaton's. RickK 03:29, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I've now Googled Amurru on Image mode and discovered a cast of a bas-relief at the British Museum that was represented in Wikipedia's text "Egyptian monuments with fair skins, light hair, blue eyes, aquiline noses, and pointed beards", apparently quoted from Roy Norvill, Giants: The Vanqished Race of Mighty Men Googling Norvill I discover that his fans consider him "an expert in the Hermetic code." This deleted text, I discover, was added 00:09, 5 Jan 2004 by User:Zestauferov --Wetman 05:08, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, this is really crying out for some updating - Middle Eastern archaeology has changed a lot since 1911! The undue focus on the Bible, in particular, is ridiculous considering their much greater importance in Mesopotamian history. But that will take work... I'll see what I can find about Amorite language, anyway. - Mustafaa 05:30, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Major improvements

Sorry I was so emphatic in April, but this is much better, thanks to User:Mustafaa and User:Jallan. If the Jewish Encyclopedia material has been selectively used, the broad hint at the link could be dropped:

In Cappadocian Zinčirli inscriptions he is called ì-li a-bi-a 'the god of my father We need to know whose inscription, because this alone doesn't transmit information. Approx. date?

represented on the Egyptian monuments with fair skins, light hair, blue eyes, aquiline noses and Blue eyes, eh? okay, we get the race implication, but since males are rendered as dark skinned, females as pale in Egyptian conventions, I just doubt the whole thing (Eaton's 1897?). Are there any Amorites illustrated on an Egyptian relief anywhere on the Web to point at?

The god Amurru was identified with the constellation Perseus. With the rest so improved, this passive of non-attribution sticks out worse than ever. Paleoastronomy anyone? ---Wetman 22:29, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Amurru & The Amorites

quoting the article:

"Though herdsmen, the Amorites were not peaceful pastoralists. They were fierce tribal clansmen who apparently forced themselves into lands they needed to graze their herds. At first the Amorites were merely a regular irritant to the Ur-III empire, but eventually they undermined it to such an extent that the position of last king Ibbi-Sin was weakened to the point that his Elamite subjects were able to over throw his rule."

"Amurru also has storm god features. Like Adad he bears the epithet ramān 'thunderer' and he is even called bāriqu 'hurler of the thunderbolt' and Adad ša a-bu-be 'Adad of the deluge'. Yet his iconography is distinct from that of Adad and he sometimes appears along side Adad with a baton of power or throwstick while Adad bears a conventional thunderbolt."

Clearly the Amorites were quite the conquerers as well as shepards and it would seem that their suspected god Amurru was empowered as such, to conquer.

Now for my additions. I've also read that Amurru was described as the leveler of cities and destroyer of peoples. Could it be that for the Amorites, he was a god that both enabled them in battle/conquest as well brought them a good flock. It's possible that both his Adad-like epithets, and his baton of power or throwstick personified him as a conquerer as well as a shepard. It's possible, mind you, it's merely speculation.

--Chairos


Although it was long thought that the Amorites invaded the Third Dynasty of Ur, Assyriologists today largely doubt that claim. Much new archaeological and documentary evidence has come to light that showed that enclaves of Amorites existed in various parts of Ur and contributed to the kingdom.

The Amorites were not a clearly dilineated group of people nor were they conquerors at all. There was no concerted invasion from the Syrian desert. Rather, in some parts of the kingdom groups of Amorites simply asserted power in their local residences; the same was happening all over the region, and not just by groups labeled Amorites. The kingdom was already dissintegrating, and as centralized power slowly collapsed, many areas began to reassert independence. I feel that it is relevant to note this new scholarship, and so I have edited the article somewhat. --KTN

[edit] Blind linking: why shuffle the cards under the table?

Can we get a much clearer re-editing of the information currently concealed in the following text in the article:

The [[Bible|Biblical]] usage appears to show that the more specific "Amorite" and less precise general "[[Canaanite]]" terms were used synonymously, the former being characteristic of [[Jahwist|Judaean]], the latter of [[Elohist|Ephraimite]] and [[deuteronomist|Deuteronomic]] writers as well as the [[Assyria|Assyro]]-[[Babylonia]]ns.

It may take a longer paragraph to disentangle these secret identifications. --Wetman 05:47, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I deleted the section as it's not based on the work of any historians (apparently just someone's personal interpretation of the bible. More seriously, the entire article seems to be based on a book published on 1934, with a little from Roux's 1980 book - pretty thin! PiCo 14:58, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amorite = MarTu = who said?

Everywhere I go on the internet I find references to the Amorites as the inhabitants fo Mari sourced from wikipedia. I thought to myself, how does a name from the Bible of an insignificant tribe in Western Canaan suddenly become associated with a major nation east of the Euphrates? Is this another Hitites = Hattians thing which is comfortable for religious fundamentalists to find proofs in anything they can from the past? All I want to know is who made the connection first and why. Can anyone put this in the article please, and if not then perhaps it would be best to separate out one from the other and make two distinct articles one about the biblical amorites and one about the Akkadian inhabitants of Mari. How about it?82.6.29.26 (talk) 08:08, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

The Jewish Encyclopedia clearly states that the identification fo MarTu with biblical Amorites is accidental and unfounded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.6.29.26 (talk) 08:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Amorites: Hejaz to the Levant 2500BC-1200BC

Tracing the Amorites migration from Hejaz to the Levant.

The West Arabian Amorites sprung out Arabia in waves of tribal federations roaming the desert/semidesert region between the Euphrates in the west and the Mediterrianean sea in the East. They were restricted from Mesopotamia by their Eastern Arabian kinsmen, the Akkadians. The Amorites of the Nroth will settle the highlands and later fall under Hittie influence, after the fall of the Hittites they will emerge as the highlanders (Armeans). The Amorites of Western Canaan will establish the coastal Canaanite towns that will later evolve into Phoenicia and Philistia. The third group of the Amorites were the East Cannanites (lowlanders) concentrated along the Euphrates, mainly following the water and pasture in the midwest Euphrates region. The Meso-Akkadians regarded the Amorites as an uncivilized unproductive group because they didn't have a harvest they can loot or a town to sack to supply their growing empire. To them the Amorites were troublesome Nomadic shepherds a people with no submission and no house in a lifetime! The Amorites viewed the Akkadians as the oppressive imperial power that controlled their only source for survival; the Euphrates water and the needed pasture for their livestock. This Mesopotamian animosity between the Akkadians and Amorites will give birth to the Zodiac as we know it. THe Amorites marked their age with the fall of the Akkadian empire 2160BC (the Akkadian Bull) and the start of the Shepherds age (The Ram). At this point The Zodiac was still two ages and will later become divided into 12 astrological ages once the Amorites enter Babylon. By the 20th Century BC the Amoires were already established in mid-Mesopotamia and started sacking the Neo-Sumerian towns; eventually conquering Babylon, making it their capital in 1959BC. UR survived another 9 years, until it was taken by the Elamites. The Amorites established their authority as he absolute Arabian/Semitic dynasty by crushing the Elamites, starting the Old Babylonian Kingdom. Hammurabi receiving he laws from the sun god. With the death of Hammurabi The Kingdom disintegrated into smaller city states ruled by weak kings. Babylon proper survived for another 100 years. In 1659BC the technologically advanced Hitties conquered Babylon. 1659BC - 1648BC: After the fall of Babylon, the Amorite dialect disappeared from Babylon and was replaced by an Assyro-Akkadian dialect interrupting the gap between Old and Neo-Babylonian and clearly shows that the East-Canaanites disappeared from Mesopotamia. 1649BC: The Amorites conquered Egypt, starting the 15th dynasty. The Amorites will control Egypt for 108 years as the elite class in Egypt. The Amorite Hyksos ruled Egypt for 108 years. However, the Egyptian-born Amorites lacked what their Nomadic ancestors had three generations earlier. By the 1540s BC the East Canaanite Amorites (Hyksos) lost control of Egypt and sensed the danger of remaining in Egypt after the atrocities the first generation commited in Egypt, so they escaped to Sinai fleeing the angry Egyptians. The Hykso escape from Egypt is very similar to the later Judean biblical folkore (the Exodus). In Against Apion, the 1st century historian Josephus simply equates the ProtoHebrews with the Hyksos. In the three centuries between the Exodus and the appearance of the Hebrews. The Egyptians documented raids by Semitic tribes into Canaan. The Egyptians knew them as the HABIRU this group included the remains of the Hyksos and the Pre-Hyksos East Canaanites who remained in Souther Canaan. The Egyptian and Hittite Imperial powers will clash in Kadesh 1274BC The treaty of Kadesh was the beginning of the end of the Imperial influence in Canaan. The power vacuum of the 1200s in Canaan allowed the Phoenician and Philistinian Arabian/Semitic cultures to flourish on their own. Taking advantage of the Egyptian absence, the Hebrews moved into Central Canaan pushing into the Egyptian protected Philistia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDfG4Hz8QI0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.132.242.113 (talk) 12:49, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: "—Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.132.242.113 (talk) 12:49, 30 January 2008 (UTC)"... Maybe so, but where? It seems to have been added to this page on March 14, by a different account. As for its content, it's total WP:OR without any sources better than a You-Tube video. What a waste of talk page space. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 11:43, 14 March 2008 (UTC)