Talk:Actual innocence
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Look at HERRERA V. COLLINS, 506 U.S. 390 (1993),and make another run at this article. I think that the phrase "actual innocence" has as much and probably more currency in habeas law than in trial procedure. Mrees1997 20:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Templates
I've placed three templates on this article. One of them calls attention to the lack of sourcing in keeping with WP:Attribution. Another calls attention to the related principle of WP:NOR, a principle recently integrated into WP:Attribution. The third disputes the factual accuracy of the article. Although I don't have adequate time to dig into extensive editing of the article at present, I should point out that "actual innocence" is primarily a term used in the appellate stage of proceedings, i.e., after a guilty verdict has already been rendered. ... Kenosis 15:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Deletion proposed
This page is a bit confused. There is no "defense" of actual innocence, not even in America! You have a presumption of innocence which may be rebutted by a properly conducted prosecution. You are then convicted. Subsequently if new evidence comes to light, e.g. B who is dead is shown to have killed C, meaning A couldn't have, then that may show that A is "actually innocent". But this is a matter of criminal procedure, and in the case linked to above, it's about the relationship between state and federal jurisdictions as well. Showing you are "actually innocent" has nothing therefore to do with a "defence" which operates at the time of the initial trial - either because it excuses or mitigates a potential sentence. The whole discussion on this page is therefore confused and it misleads readers. It is unreferenced and uninformative. It should be deleted. Wikidea 10:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
- I'd rather see it improved than deleted. The fact that there is a presumption of innocence does not detract from the fact that this is a defense to the assertion by the state that the defendant is guilty of a crime. The problem is that this is so taken for granted that criminal law courses don't address the most frequently pled claim that the defendant had no involvement whatsoever in the alleged criminal activity. In law school, the cases are all about "yes, buts" - "yes, I took the car, but I was going to return it" or "yes, we had sex, but she consented" or "yes, I hit him, but he hit me first" or "yes, I shot him, but the voices in my head made me do it." However, this leaves untouched the bulk of cases in which the defendant's assertion is that they were somewhere else entirely when the crime was committed, that the witness saw someone else who only looked like the defendant, that the police or some other party planted whatever incriminating evidence was to be found, or that the confession was false and was coerced. We have articles on alibi, mistaken identity, frame-up and false confession, actual innocence is merely the header under which each of these topics is properly covered. bd2412 T 15:27, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Although mistaken identity is not a substantive defence (and the article should not suggest it is), there are plenty of particular rules which apply when mistaken identity is alleged in a criminal trial (at least in England: R v. Turnball). I suspect alibi can have enough substance to survive as a separate article: there are certain procedural rules (notifications of alibis, etc) which might be worth including. I would rather see this article merged with eyewitness identification, preferably under the heading of mistaken identity.Dubitante 11:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
