User talk:200.164.220.194

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[edit] slang?

What makes you think the word "elegant" is slang? Michael Hardy 21:04, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Apparently he doesn't like the word "elegant". Check out the talk page at Axiom schema. He can express himself colorfully, if not elegantly. DavidCBryant 21:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

At least I am certainly not carrying my favorite slang into any articles. :-)

At any rate, the case with the "without loss of elegance" is pretty serious. I still don't know what the fuck is that supposed to mean. Without loss of simplicity, maybe? Why don't say simplicity, then? But most important of all: who cares? As if simplicity/"elegance" was a technical requirement for mathematics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.164.220.194 (talk • contribs)

In my book it is. Mathematics is worthless when not communicated sucessfuly between humans. Simplicity/elegance is important to be understood and to be read. People have better things to do than trying to decipher some mess. Jmath666 17:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Social conventions

Take a look at this edit. Why would you want to erase the signature supplied automatically when you neglected to sign your post? Are you at war with the entire world? Why not co-operate? Most of the editors are nice people. You might even convince a few of us to remove some of the elegance if you went about it politely. DavidCBryant 22:04, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I erased it because I am not an wikipedian, I don't have an account, my IP is not really only mine (it's one of those which is shared by many computers at once), and I also really never go beyond a few small corrections or opinions on talk pages. And I am not at war against the entire world, I just like using colorful language. It helps making my point sometimes.

Also, as I said in the page you cited, I don't really have that much to contribute (but a few small corrections or suggestions), that's why I don't have an account. Why bother, if I am not gonna do that much really? But I read quite a few articles here on a daily basis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.164.220.194 (talk • contribs)

Well you are contributing in user space by these discussions, so you might just as well make an account to sign what you say. Your Real Life info stays confidential and even more so since your IP will not be disclosed. BTW I think that the question "is elegance in mathematics important" is a valid subject of discussion and of relevance to Wikipedia. Jmath666 17:20, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

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[edit] (Ir)relevance of elegance

I have replied on my talk page. Jmath666 23:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Helix

Just saw your entry on the Euler's formula talk and on helix, there is a detail missing. A spiral needs the three dimensions and when you say the complex exponential its understood to be stuck in just two, making circles. If we say R^2 = C (the complex plane) then the spiral is (e^(it),t)=(cos(t)+i(sin(t),t)=(cos(t),sin(t),t). So your observation in the Helix needs more details, and I am not sure how this should be explained. Consider moving the issue to the talk page so that what is on the page is more reliable. Ricardo sandoval 02:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Isn't the vector (cos(t), sin(t), t) a three-dimensional vector? DavidCBryant 10:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

(At Ricardo): f(x) = e^xi is a function which takes arguments from the Real line (the variable "x") giving complex values, that is, points on the complex plane (f(x) = <a,bi>), right?

(Alternatively, one could write "e^x" taking arguments directly from the Imaginary line)

You're picturing a circle on the complex plane, but that's only the range of this function. To picture the actual function (Domain x Range, Real line x Complex plane) you have to add an extra dimension (from which it takes its arguments from, its Domain).

Then you have a helix.

I see what you are saying better now but the original definition of helix is the function {t goes to (cos(t),sin(t),t)}. So to make it agree with that definition we should say that the function { t goes to (e^(it),t)} is an helix. When you say "to plot" I don't think that is clear ( at least when you plot something you usually plot like (t,e^(it)) ) maybe I am just being nit picking here but... Ricardo sandoval 14:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

(At Ricardo) Dude, I don't think you've got it yet. You don't need any other varible, e^xi is a helix, in a 3d space, it takes arguments from from a line and gives values on a plane... this function IS NOT a circle (a circle is a function!). You're mistaking its range for the function itself (that is, a subset of the cartesean product of Real numbers x Complex numbers, whose Dmonain is all real numbers and whose range is the unit circle on the complex plane). What you're saying is akin to say that sin(x) is the interval [-1,1]. That's why I wanted a picture of it added... it seems you (and probably other people too) are hung up by the fact you've never seen it depicted as a helix, so you think it must be wrong, although that's EXACTLY what this function is. I repeat, you don't need any other variable. e^xi takes a 1-tuple (Real number) and returns a 2-tuple (Complex Number). Can you add? 1 + 2 = 3. 3 dimensions.


We agree that the graph of the function {x into e^(ix)} is the set of points (x,e^(ix)) in 3d space.

If you understand that the helix is the set of points (x,e^(ix)) then everything is ok.

But that is not clear in the article itself for example in

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Helix.html and see also http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SpaceCurve.html the 3d curve helix is the function x into (x,cos(x),sin(x)) so its graph would actually be the set of points (x,x,cos(x),sin(x)).

The usual definition of a 3d curve is as a function R into R^3. Not as a subset in R^3 as you would expect.

I would guess both definitions are possible and people interchange those definitions sometimes (in differential geometry this is explained many times over).

And they are in the wrong order. Since the helix is x into (e^(ix),x) not x into (x,e^(ix)).

Can you be more civil?

Ricardo sandoval 04:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] An Automated Message from HagermanBot

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button Image:Wikisigbutton.png located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! HagermanBot 03:19, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome!

Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia! You don't have to log in to read or edit articles on Wikipedia, but you may wish to create an account. Doing so is free, requires no personal information, and provides several benefits. Your IP address will no longer be visible to other users, and you will be able to:

Feel free to ask me any questions you may have on my talk page. By the way, remember to sign and date your comments with four tildes (~~~~). Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 15:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)