User talk:137.82.188.68

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Contents

[edit] Welcome

Welcome!

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from Wikipedian: ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 04:26, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] November 2005

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Jobe6 Image:Peru flag large.png 06:15, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] March 2006

Hey, welcome to Wikipedia! See a false comment? Non-neutral point of view? The place to air your concerns is the talk page! Also, it is encouraged, but not required, that you register an account. Welcome, again, to Wikipedia! —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 07:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] October 2006

Hi there. With regard to Hidden from History: The Canadian Holocaust, please note that in Wikipedia we cannot assume a prescriptivist tone: we cannot issue warnings like "caveat emptor" about Annett's or other people's writings. All we can really do in cases like this is summarize, as faithfully as possible, just what it is that both parties in a dispute are saying. --Saforrest 22:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments about Alan Kay

Hello 137.82.188.68, Several months ago I questioned your comment about Dennis Gabor in the User Talk section of the Alan Kay biography. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alan_Kay, comment "On the source of 'The best way to predict the future is to invent it'". I believe my comments are still valid. Please be so kind as to explain your rationale as to why your parenthetical note provides any value to the collection of Alan Kay quotes. What specifically did Mr. Gabor say that you feel justifies your note? Generally speaking, quotations do not require footnotes unless you are acusing Dr. Kay of plagerism. Dennis Gabor's body of work is substantial and important, and really stands on its own merits. Sincerely, YORD-the-unknown 00:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps this will help clarify the issue: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/fce/c2000/pubs/nab97/index.html refer to "Human-Centered Design" YORD-the-unknown 00:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Your comments: "Regarding the 'inventing the future' quote I am *not* accusing Alan Kay of plagirism (why so touchy?), only noting that Dennis Gabor likely thought of it first. (He wrote a whole book on the subject, considerably pre-dating Kay's rise to prominence. Do you dispute this?!) It is quite possible that Kay thought of it independently. It is also quite common for quotes to become attached to the people who popularized them, not the people who originated them. Robert F. Kennedy, in his 1968 political campaign speeches, often quoted (with attribution) George Bernard Shaw's aphorism, "some men see things as they are and ask, why? I dream of things that never were and ask, why not?" After his assassination I saw memorial posters printed up with this aphorism attributed directly to RFK, and I have seen this mis-attribution innocently repeated. For ordinary conversation it would actually be quite tiresome to footnote short, pithy, phrases -- for Kay to say in speeches, "as Dennis Gabor first said, the best way to predict the future is to invent it" even if he did get it from Gabor. 137.82.188.68 01:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC) (Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YORD-the-unknown")
Response: My comments were in regard to "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." As noted in the link I provided, Gabor said "You can't predict the future, but you can invent it." And, yes, Gabor's book title itself suggests a possible source that possibly influanced Kay. Perhaps you are right however, there is no source that that states that Kay's remark was derived from Gabor. Hence, it is opinion to suggest that Gabor was the source with annotations such as "Perhaps..." or "This is likely...". Wikipedia's rules prohibit the interjection of opinion.
I've cited a source that I believe clarifies the two quotes. Please cite an acceptable source or otherwise kindly remove the conjecture. Sorry if my comments sound "touchy" to you but I am protective of the works that I'm contributing to. Again, sorry if I sounded "touchy". Kind regards, YORD-the-unknown 05:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Your Comment: I believe you are incorrect; Wikipedia does not prohibit the interjection of opinion (otherwise there could be no film reviews on Wikipedia, and there are many!); it aims to prohibit the interjection of unsourced controversial opinion -- especially critical or potentially libellous opinion -- which this is certainly not. The "source" you demand is the de facto appearance of Gabor's book in 1963/64. Perhaps you might also demand a "source" for the statement that Hemmingway took the title "For Whom the Bell Tolls" from John Donne's poem (I could in fact provide a source from a Hemmingway biography, but why would this be any more convincing than the thing itself?), but I would regard this as either ignorance or disingenuousness on your part not especially deserving an answer. Again, I am not attempting to traduce Kay, only provide a reference to the interested reader to a whole book which explores the very idea expressed in his quote. If you are opposed to such a reference then I suggest you are not well-suited to understand the interconnected nature of useful knowledge which one would like to exhibit in an encyclopedia. 137.82.188.68 00:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Response: I've cited a "Reliable Source" (Georgia Institute of Technology) which specifies that Dennis Gabor is the author of the comment "You can't predict the future, but you can invent it" and Alan Kay is the author of "The best way to predict the future is to invent it".
We have discussed this issue as recommended in Wikipedia's Dispute Resolution policy. I recommend a "cooling off period". Sincerely, YORD-the-unknown 14:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Your Comment: I remain somewhat puzzled by your objection to a cross-reference to Dennis Gabor; there is little difference between Gabor's and Kay's formulation, and Gabor certainly pre-dates Kay. What seems to me of more interest is that Kay attempted to live the quote in his work in computer science. 137.82.188.68 22:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Response: I think Wikipedia is one of the great information applications of all time. Unfortunately, every article is subject to wide swings in terms of form and style. If an opinion about Gabor's influance on Kay is interjected into a quote, then someone else might interject the opinion that there is no proof that Gabor had any influance. In that case, the Kay quote would become a discussion within the content of the article. Then someone else might have another opinion, such as Kay being influanced by Peter Drucker or Elinor Roosevelt, and so it would go. I believe the origin of the quote seems a proper subject for the discussion tab and I have no objectection to the exploration and the discussion. Your comments have been interesting to me and would probably be of interest to others if they were shared in the Alan Kay discussion. I started a discussion under that tab back in August of last year. I would encourage you to respond to my comments ("On the source of 'The best way to predict the future is to invent it'"). Who knows, you might draw the attention of Kay himself. He has apparently responded in the discussion section before. Kind regards, YORD-the-unknown 18:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)