Talk:Yule log

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Contents 1 Reference Please 2 Where is the Christmas tree? 3 Merge with Yule Log? 4 About the Yule Log = Root thing 5 Yule log or Yule Log? 6 Tasty Yule Logs? 7 Recent Llewellyn Worldwide/Publications-derived additions

[edit] Reference Please

Even the bonfires of ancient times survived in the tradition of the Yule log, perhaps the most universal of all Christmas symbols. Can the author of this sentence please provide some evidence that the Yule log is universally recognized as a Christmas symbol--both to Christians and non-Christians around the world? As a Westerner of Christian background, I think of Christmas trees, Santa Claus, and nativity scenes as major Christmas symbols in modern times. Not the Yule log. 71.113.154.193 23:58, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where is the Christmas tree?

The Yule Log, as a piece of tree set afire at midwinter to mark the soltice and the return of spring, is no different from the Christmas Tree. The former is Saxon, the latter German. In Lithuania, they used to go out into the forest and set a tree on fire. Shouldn't these articles AT LEAST be linked? Evertype 00:41, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Yule Log?

Should this article merge with [Yule Log (TV program)]]? --Blue387 09:31, 10 May 2005 (UTC) Yeah, they are sort of the same area of subject...

I don't think merger is a good idea, the subjects are similar, but not congruent. I have a question of my own. Susan Cooper, in her "The Dark is Rising" series of young adult fiction says the yule log is from the root of the tree. Does anyone know anything about that? Mannykrasner@yahoo.com

[edit] About the Yule Log = Root thing

For what it's worth, I found this at snopes.com -- "It was unlucky to buy a yule log. Lucky ones were obtained from one's own land or from a neighbor's wood. Often a stump or a root (not necessarily a proper log at all), it was brought home on Christmas Eve and laid in the hearth." Krychek 22:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yule log or Yule Log?

The capitalization of "l" in "log" is random in this article, which is very distracting. Moncrief 21:03, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tasty Yule Logs?

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that the only picture of Yule Logs found in this article are made of cake? Yummy, but not really appropriate. Also, what is meant by "The Yule Log, as a piece of tree set afire at midwinter to mark the soltice and the return of spring, is no different from the Christmas Tree." Hello? The difference is that one is decorated and the other is set on fire. Big difference, I think.

[edit] Recent Llewellyn Worldwide/Publications-derived additions

Recently a bunch of stuff from Llewellyn Worldwide have been added here. Much of this "information" is simply misinformation without any foot in actual sources or history. The company has an immensely overshadowing reputation for publishing all sorts of new age blather. Please do not add information here from these sources without first checking the sources Llewellyn gives (if they are given at all) and then citing those sources as the basis of the claim, then we can go from there, otherwise you are likely encountering someone's daydream being stated as fact. There's so much nonsense and confusion regarding this subject matter that we need to be particularly careful as to what is added here. I am always amazed how much information in these quarters gets passed off as "fact", ending up all over, and without a single foot in a historical source; this "Holly King" stuff is a prime example. :bloodofox: (talk) 23:47, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, cite a source attesting to this unreliability, don't obliterate sourced material because you're going to make a claim that the source is no good -- particularly when your own sources include nineteenth century nationalists, many of whom had fairly dubious notions about national and ethic origins of traditions. From your user page it seems clear that you have a strong interest in Thor and Germanic paganism, which is fine, as long as you cite your sources when you assert the preeminence of these in European traditions. In so doing, don't defame sourced material on your opinion alone (or the word of "some administrator you talked to who is an expert", as you put it on my user talk), establish its unreliability as you establish anything else, with sourced material. If you can't, then take it at face value. Add your material, don't replace other material with it. Edit, don't destroy. Larry Dunn (talk) 00:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I have added another source that is not published by the company you dislike; I trust this will end your deletion of this (now multiple sourced) material. Add your Thor stuff, and please cite a source. Larry Dunn (talk) 00:33, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, this information was there before it was apparently removed in a wave of vandalism. There are two sources in the information you removed. The first source is from 1865: [1]. Check it out. The second is from 1965 and is from H. R. Ellis Davidson. Yule has zero to do with Celtic polytheism and is instead derived from Germanic paganism, this is clear. It's just that Wiccan circles mix the two as a form of modern religion. The source you have superimposed over this is a book from 2007 ([[2]]) by Wiccan author Dorothy Morrison by an often criticized publisher[3][4] (both from the article about the subject alone - there's plenty more out there). This is very much an unreliable source. I am not going to edit war with you about it but this is obviously bogus. None of this has anything to do with Nationalism and neither do these sources. Anyway, about the administrator, I just asked them to look at the Holly King (myth) article as it's basically more new ageness masquerading as historical fact and they tend to edit a lot in those circles. :bloodofox: (talk) 00:35, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Larry, but Llewellyn books are pop-culture books without any scholarly standards for sourcing. No reputable writer would rely on them for sourcing anything encyclopedic. They might be useful when providing examples of pop-Wicca or fakelore, but that's about it. In the rare cases where one of their books may have footnotes, look into those sources. But, for the most part, Llewellyn books don't have footnotes. It's just not their thing. In general, Wiccan books should not be used as sources on folklore, anyway. Use folklore sources and academic writers published on University presses. Davidson, for example, is an excellent, scholarly writer on matters both Celtic and Germanic. - Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 04:15, 25 December 2007 (UTC)