Talk:Yisrael Meir Kagan

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The sin of Loshon Hora, evel talk, is transgressed according to the Torah whenever one speaks truth that can cause harm, embarrassment or other damage to the subject. According to Kabbalistic sources, Rabbi Mendel Kessin states, the sins of the speaker, subject and listener are all revealed to the heavenly court at the time of the evil talk. Each word of Loshon Hora comprises 31 seperate sins for the speaker.

And therefore...? JFW | T@lk 07:31, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Sha'ar HaTziyyun

The work referred to in the article as Sha'ar HaTzion (Translated in the article as "Gate of Zion/Excellence") is actually Sha'ar HaTziyyun. Sha'ar HaTzion would be translated as "Gate of Zion," but could not be translated as "Gate of Excellence." Sha'ar HaTziyyun could theoretically be translated as "Gate of Excellence," but that translation is inappropriate in context. The work serves primarily to document sources for laws and customs quoted in the Mishnah Berurah. The name Sha'ar HaTziyyun derives from the phrase Sh'arim m'tzuyanim ba'halacha, translated as "gateways distinguished in (or marked in) Jewish Law," referring to the Torah study and scholarship that would distinguish Jewish homes. Rabbi Kagan chose the title as a double entendre, hinting at the distinguishment of scholarship referenced in his work, but primarily referring to the function of Sha'ar HaTziyyun in documenting (marking) sources. HKT 22:27, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

  • Hey HKT: Feel free to put some of these observations into the article itself, they sound very learned and informative. IZAK 22:51, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Picture's authenticity

"The picture is really his shammash" or "the picture is really his shochet" are two popular rumors that have been circulating for quite a while. I've personally seen a few photos of the Chafetz Chaim in a recently published book, and, in my opinion, there is no mistaking that the likeness in this ubiquitous picture is him. HKT 02:20, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

It is a known fact that the picture in the article is NOT of any rabbi, much less yisrael meir kagan. There is no extant photograph of Yisrael Meir Kagan. The picture is in fact one of a butcher in the town in which R. Kagan lived, who looked similar to him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gregor Jones (talk • contribs) 13:36, July 19, 2005.

If you had just stated this here it would have been fine. But your edit on the page (by changing the image caption) is trolling. Go away. JFW | T@lk 19:55, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

I heard from the Chafetz Chaim's great-ganddaughter, who head from hear grnadmother (the Chafetz Chaim's daughter) that this is not a picture of the Chafetz Chaim.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.35.44.163 (talk • contribs) 16:35, December 30, 2005.

Yeah, and that it was the shochet. Very nice. Perhaps that granddaughter could also tell us which image is accurate. In the meantime, the image commonly thought to represent him may grace this page. JFW | T@lk 07:11, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
The Artscroll biography of the Chofetz Chaim has a a few real pictures of him. --רח"ק | Talk 23:11, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Here's an actual picture of the Choffetz chaim....since you people feel so strongly about it, I will not change the photo...I don't have time to quibble....the purported picture of hte chofetz chaim may or may not be the choffetz chaim. Furthermore, there are pictures that unquestionably are the choffetz chaim...why not use those? Whether its his SHamash or his shochet does not really matter. Nor whether he looked LIKE this or not. What matters is that you are uncluding controversial information.

http://www.kehillastorah.org/chofetz-chaim2.html http://www.kehillastorah.org/chofetz-chaim.html

For those that care...please change it.

[edit] Poupko

I agree the factoid that his legal surname was Poupko should be scrapped. He had a son called Tzvi Hirsh Poupko. But I have never seen the Chofetz Chaim himself referred to by that name, and his letterhead (in the Yosher biography) calls him Rabin Kagan; as a Rosh Yeshiva he would have used his legal surname on papers meant for official/governmental purposes. JFW | T@lk 09:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I've heard the “Poupko” rumor before, but without serious documentation it shouldn't even be given credence in the article, which is why I removed it. -- Avi 17:32, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

My neighbor is a great-grandson of the Chofetz Chaim. Here is the information he told me, which is verified in a published family tree that is circulating within the Zaks family:

  1. The Chofetz Chaim's name and his father's name was Kagan.
  2. The Chofetz Chaim had four children by his first wife, Frida Miriam Epstein: Gittel, Aryeh Leib, Avraham, and Sara. Sara married Tzvi Hirsh Levinson, which is where JFW might have gotten that name. Avraham died at the age of 25, never having married.
  3. For some reason, only Aryeh Leib called himself Poupko. He had many children, but most of them died leaving no progeny (there is one elderly woman alive today who comes from his line, but otherwise, the line died out).
  4. Rabbi Eliezer Poupko is no relation to this family. (The nearest name that comes close is Aryeh Leib's son, Eliyahu.)
  5. The Chofetz Chaim's second wife was Miriam Frida Schindler. They had one daughter, who married Menachem Mendel Zaks and from whom the majority of living descendants of the Chofetz Chaim come. Yoninah 21:58, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Y'yasher Kochaych, Yoninah. -- Avi 02:58, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I have seen "Encyclopedia Judaica, Volume 9, column 1068" quoted as a source for his name to be Poupko. This is not the 1901-1906 Jewish Encyclopedia. I have not actually seen it. Ratzd'mishukribo 20:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Aryeh Leib Poupko, Chofetz Chaim firstborn, had five children: Sonya, Eli, Gittel, Ben-Zion and Shoshana. Sonya, Shoshana and Ben-Zion (my grandfather) still have living descendents. Ben-Zion, his wife Clara and their firstborn daughter Miriam were killed in the holocaust in Auschwitz. Their two sons (Daniel and Raphael) survived and have children and grandchildren living in Israel, still carrying the name Poupko. --Ouri 19:28, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Content?

The article contains no information at all on the life of the Chofetz Chaim at all. We read which books he wrote and what's named after him. But when did he found his yeshiva? When did his shop (or his wife's shop) open and close? He was a contemporary of Rabbi Yisrael Salanter, and I recall them working together in Vilna. Etc etc. JFW | T@lk 16:56, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] prediction

i heard that that some say that chofetz chaim made predictions abou the second world war. have anybody heard of that or some sources? thx in advance--Baruch ben Alexander - ☠☢☣ 15:49, 14 March 2008 (UTC)