User talk:Yaroslav Zolotaryov

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[edit] Welcome!

Hello, Yaroslav Zolotaryov, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Again, welcome! abakharev 07:24, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Siberian

I have copied the (deleted) contents of the article Siberian language into my own userspace: User:IJzeren Jan/Siberian language. Feel free to edit it at all. Best, —IJzeren Jan In mij legge alle fogultjes een ij 11:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 12:27, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the links! Well, I think this proves sufficiently well that Siberian is NOT original research. Objectively speaking, it qualifies well for an article in wikipedia.en. The chances for that are not too good at the moment, though; deleting an article requires a "rough consensus", but a request for undeletion would require an absolute majority, which given the large amount of people who want to destroy this article at any cost (including people who want to destroy constructed language articles at all cost) is not likely to succeed.
I'll start working on a Dutch version. I may have some questions to you later. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 07:17, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm working on it. Right now, I have three questions:

  1. Looking at the links you provided, I get the impressoin that Siberian is pretty much associated with regionalism, even with separatism. Question: is that part of the program of the language, or is that just an association made by others?
  2. What do you mean by "the special speech allocation of the sound ‘o’, even in the no consonant vowel after the hard sonant and the hiss consonant."
  3. Could you please provide me with a sample text, preferably one with a Russian version (for comparison) and a rough English translation (my Russian is pretty mediocre).

Thanks in advance! —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 12:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

It's done: nl:Siberisch! Cheers, —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 14:01, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you) --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 16:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

"Looking at the links you provided, I get the impressoin that Siberian is pretty much associated with regionalism, even with separatism. Question: is that part of the program of the language, or is that just an association made by others?"

Program of the language is only to restore the dialect. But this program is supported by siberian regionalists and russian imperialists actively fight against it, as you have seen. Ukrainians and belarussians support it too, because they think that this is something similiar to liberation of ukrainian and belorussian, which were also considered as dialect. Further, siberian is closer to ukrainian than to official russian, because of folk sources of both languages. So this is only social aspect of the language, the language has many other aspects. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 16:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

"What do you mean by "the special speech allocation of the sound ‘o’, even in the no consonant vowel after the hard sonant and the hiss consonant.""

O and U after a vowel and in beginning of the phrase become Vo and Vu. Ex: Vuzory taki baski (=The patterns are very beautifull), but Jeto baskoj uzor (The pattern is beautifull). Also Tako vokno u tia vohreto (Your window is so dirty), but Jevon okno-to obvohretilosj (See, the window became dirty!)


"Could you please provide me with a sample text, preferably one with a Russian version (for comparison) and a rough English translation (my Russian is pretty mediocre)".

My English is also very pretty mediocre)))

The 1st psalm of David

Siberian Шасливой мужык, которой не хоит на вече варначников, Ешшо не торчит на путе греховодников, Ешшо не сидит в усборишше покрутчиков, Но в коне Воспода воля евонна, И про кон Евонной думат день и тьон дык. Ить бут вон навроде лесины, сажонной при перекале вологи, Котора приносит жырки ейны во времьо ейно, И лис которой не вянет, И во всьом, чо не деет, поспетса му. Не таки варначники, а вони как пыль, котору сметат буран, Пото не выдюжат варначники на ряде, И греховодники - в усборишше праведных, Ить знат Восподь путь праведных, А путь варначников погинет.

Russian Блаженен муж, который не ходит на совет нечестивых и не стоит на пути грешных и не сидит в собрании развратителей, но в законе Господа воля его, и о законе его размышляет он день и ночь, и будет он как дерево посаженное при потоках вод, которое приносит плод свой во время свое, которое не вянет и во всем, что он не делает успеет. Не так – нечестивые [не так]: но они – как прах, возметаемые ветром [с лица земли]. Потому не устоят нечестивые на суде, грешники в собрании праведных. Ибо знает Господь путь праведных, а путь нечестивых погибнет.

The english text can be founded everywhere. You see, that the russian text contauns many Church Slavonic words, but the Siberian have truly folk dialectal implementaion. This is like Latin and Italianm the russian text uses words which were not used by peasants. Current diffusion of russian language in Siberia is result of education system; but our parents did not speak this language. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 16:03, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for all the info. I think my article is more or less finished now.
There are a few other things I'm curious about. Since Siberian is stripped from cerkievisms, should I assume that words like враг, крат, муравей, праздный, страмить, балаболить, облако, пламя, влага, влажный in Siberian become ворог, корот, моровей, порозный, соромить, болоболить, оболоко, поломя, волога, воложный? And how about these: is it цвет and звезда or квет and гвезда?
I also vaguely recall that in some Northern dialects the Old Slavic sequence -dl- becomes -gl-. So моглить and он шегл?
Cheers, —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu? 20:05, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
влага to волога you can see just in text of 1st psalm. Муравей has shortened form of мураш. Страмить/соромить has both forms in the dialect, also волось/воблась. Ворог, полымя as well used in siberian instead of враг, пламя. So we have some old-slavonic forms which was really used by people (блаславлять to bless), but not very many of them. цвет is свет (светочки), but звезда is still звьозда. About -dl-|-gl- I have not heard, but there are some new changes like -st- to -ss- (klastj > klassj), -ch- in infinitivies usually - gchi- (rus. moch = sib. mogchi). Many consonantst in the end reduced (hvorosj, lis), gender of words changed (mysh m. in siberian: Kakoj busoj mysh! (what a greay mouse!), etc.


--Yaroslav Zolotaryov 21:39, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

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