Talk:Xylem

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 Xylem is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to plants and botany. For more information, visit the project page.
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With regards to the proposed merger of vessel element into xylem:

  • oppose - since only the xylem of angiosperms contains vessel elements. My reasoning is thus (1) the two words are not synonyms, (2) vessel elements a specialized and taxonomically/evolutionarily significant specialization not found in most clades, (3) the structure, diversity, and evolutionary significance of vessel elements warrants an entire article in its own right. --EncycloPetey 02:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
  • oppose - per above; also, you'd have to merge in other things (tracheids, perhaps?) in order for this merge to be fair. it's 1) too much work and b) would bake xylem too big. -- Jjjsixsix (talk)/(contribs) @ 05:05, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
  • support- the xylem is a tissue that contains the xylem vessels in many plants and should be reflected in the article. I also think that tracheids should be included as again it is part of the tissue and is used instead of xylem vessels in many plants. I do not think that the risk of making the article is a valid reason for not including these elements as people who only require a very basicunderstanding can stop reading after the summary paragraph at the start or continue reading if they become intrested - —Preceding unsigned comment added by AdamClarke (talk • contribs)

(talk) 19 january 11:23 GMT

  • oppose: "vessel element" appears to be in order, while "xylem" remains not only an accident waiting to happen, but an accident in progress. Not all xylem contains vessel elements. Xylem (secondary xylem that is) may contain many kind of cell types except vessel elements . Brya 18:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Qualifying this: merging can be made to work, but this still would need illustrations and quite a bit of careful work. At the moment the differences between primary and secondary xylem are snowed under. I would be a lot happier about merging if indeed separate (if short) entries for secondary xylem, tracheid and vessel element could be maintained. If it were possible to make redirects to wiktionary the shortened versions of "tracheid" and "vessel element" could be moved to become wiktionary entries. Starting with a summary would be a good idea also.
All in all, if "xylem" is to be expanded I would prefer to see the various aspects built up as separate items, before considering merging. Brya 08:35, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
  • support: Since I have contributed to this article I suppose I should weigh in to say that I support putting information on vessel elements here, rather than in an article of their own. Either redirect or give "vessel" or "vessel element(s)" minimal definitions with a link to this article. It just makes sense to discuss all the elements of xylem together, even if they don't always occur together at the same time in the same plant. (And yes, I suppose that implies merging "secondary xylem" into this article sooner or later also...) MrDarwin 22:02, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
  • support: It seems to me that vessel elements - and indeed tracheids - are the defining features of xylem, and the details of their function, their similarities and their differences are best described in a single article. Obviously it is important that basic definitions of vessel elements and tracheids exist under their own headings, but as these articles currently stand, moving the bulk of each of them into "xylem" would allow a more consistent and cohesive treatment. "Vessel element" would need to be a much larger article to warrant independence. Lycanthrope 20:49, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
    This is incorrect. Most clades of xylem-bearing plants lack vessel elements. The defining feature of xylem in recent cladistic and morphological literature seems to be the presence of the compound lignin, not a cell type. In fact, some of the "xylem" in the Silurian rhyniophytes has been found not to be true xylem, despite the structure of the cells. See the research of Paul Kenrick for details. --EncycloPetey 18:44, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
  • comment Barring the above indented bit, it seems like no discussion has been going on for several months but the merge tags are still there? Personally I have no preference over merging or not, but if you do merge, perhaps organize xylem into sections with a Main article: .... I still don't understand the difference between tracheids and xylem elements, at least my textbook gives the exact same descriptions of both, so please make these distinctions clearer thanks. 218.102.71.167 14:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
    Tracheids are one of the kinds of cells found in xylem; there are many others that may be found in xylem. --EncycloPetey 05:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
  • oppose This is a very important part of a plant, along with the phloem. That is a seperate article and this should be too. Superbowlbound 19:07, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge of Tracheid into xylem

Oppose I do not believe that every information need to stay only in giantic compilations of it's superordinate topic.
Tracheid is not the synonymum of xylem nor such merging would help to understand the topic of tracheids, tracheids formation, it's contribution to plant developement, the role of auxin to plant organ selforganisation. Nor inclusion of all that stuff in the xylem would help the xylem article, as not all those actions are relevant to xylem etc. Simply let each information unit have it's own article. We can simply borow some descriptive sentences from one article to the second one. It does'nt harm anything. Reo ON | +++ 23:03, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


oppose.

[edit] Note

Well, obviously I am glad to see people taking an interest, and even more glad to see some movement in this incomprehensible deadlock. However, this insertion of a discussion on vessel elements means that in effect the merge is going through, here and now. To me it looks as if clarity would be served by moving everything on vessel elements into either vessel element or into a evolution related topic (like the big vascular system entry that was hinted at. Brya 21:54, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Oppose on the basis that the xylem article is still too unstable to merge anything into it. In cases of incomprehensible deadlocks we must go with the no concensus - no merge plan, clear the tags, and allow progress to resume. Meggar 18:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Xylem function

For the simpler folk amongst us, could you put in a statement (if it is true) that "in trees, all the inside wood of the tree is xylem. In other words, soil water with nutrients is transported by the entire stem of the tree, exclusive of the outer layer which transports sugars from the leaves around the tree to where it is needed." This is implied by the article but is it indeed so? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.239.169.115 (talk) 05:59, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

No, it is not so. The central wood (heartwood) in a tree usually is dead and no longer functional. In tropical trees, the center may even rot away, leaving the tree as a hollow cylinder. Only the living xylem continues to transport. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:29, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
In addition, not all the sapwood conducts water; in many temperate oaks, only the last year of xylem conducts water, all the previous years' vessels being blocked by air embolisms.--Curtis Clark (talk) 05:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)