Talk:Xenix

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Xenix article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (`~~~~`). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

	This article is within the scope of Computing WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to computers and computing. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received an rating on the importance scale.

1 Microsoft and UNIX
2 SCO
3 Xenix descendants
4 Available Microsoft XENIX Software
5 A Question
6 First Unix/Xenix
7 Early Xenix Versions not mentioned in article
8 Intel?

[edit] Microsoft and UNIX

I remember a presentation in 1999 of the editor of the Linux Journal playing up a number of Microsoft ads from the early to mid 1980s where Bill Gates states that he is convinced that UNIX was the best Operating System around. Not entirely unbelieveable: DOS not only survived, but thrived despite both MS's & IBM's best attempts otherwise. And I suspect MS would like to forget their involvement in this 30-year-old technology; best reason for the changes I made to the relevant articles. -- llywrch 03:02 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

Truth be told, this is not a simple tale and I doubt there is much shame at MS over their long UNIX history (only perhaps a bit of marketing spin to keep consumers focused on Windows). There have long been rumours Gates recommended Xenix to IBM for the PC but was flatly turned down since MS was but a licensee of AT&T, IBM's biggest potential competitor at the time (the AT&T breakup was looming and with it, AT&T's entry into the computer market). Gates then offered CP/M, but the IBM guys didn't negotiate well with DR and came back to Gates still looking for an OS so at last he scrounged and came up with Quick 'n Dirty, which was about his last easy option. MS/PC-DOS, even cleaned up, was utterly primitive compared to Xenix, but its fast, unprotected calls and wide open structure worked well for games too and licensing costs were nill. When he realized how much money could be made on an open hardware platform with a light OS (program launcher, really) that MS owned outright and which met a cheap, marketable standard (which included "hackability" for lucrative games), he went with the market (never mind the pressures of MS having gone public after the IBM deal) and the public ultimately bought the cheapest OS available- MS-DOS. There are also rumours one of the many reasons Paul Allen left MS was his unhappiness with the shift in focus away from UNIX-like products (MS had been a small but respected language vendor edging into UNIX for the low end mini-computer market before its meeting with destiny and IBM). Meanwhile by 1987 Microsoft's Xenix was still the most widely installed form of UNIX in the world: MS-DOS, OS/2 and NT were all fundamentally influenced by it. Early Windows was built on Xenix boxes. In effect, internally MS was a UNIX shop until 1993. Gates was still preaching the virtues of UNIX as late as 1996 and even claiming that NT was (in a "weak" sense, his word) a form of UNIX. Microsoft's gradual withdrawl from the UNIX market likely made it many more billions than it would have made otherwise but also left a wide open opportunity for Linux and later the BSDs to attract the markets MS left untended. Meanwhile MS bought/licensed/~~stole~~ imitated the best, cheaply implemented the spoils and along with some cunning business practices shoved them into the market pipeline which by 1995 or so it utterly dominated. Gwen Gale 19:01, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SCO

To me at least this article doesn't make clear the the SCO here is "old SCO" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.45.4.118 (talk • contribs) 10:09, April 16, 2006 (UTC)

<daniel@nelxe.dk>: I think that Microsoft actually used to own Santa Cruz Operation....so they didn't really abandon the UNIX efforts...SCO released SCO Unix..

[edit] Xenix descendants

I've added a little information on the later descendants of Xenix (SCO UNIX and OpenServer) and a redirect from OpenServer, but the information is pretty sparse. Anyone who knows more about this should add to the article. (I know, I know, SCO is "evil" these days - I run Linux myself - but that doesn't mean Wikipedia shouldn't list information about them.) Beinsane 00:02, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Available Microsoft XENIX Software

I removed this section, which previously said, in full: "Microsoft Pascal Compiler for the 286 XENIX Operating System (didn't support 386 extentions". I considered cleaning it to: "Microsoft Pascal Compiler for the 286 Xenix Operating System (did not support 386 extensions)" but then considered the section was too sparse to stand alone. If anyone can flesh out the section with other software available then feel free to add it back in. Pelago 22:25, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Question

How could microsoft get the licensed from AT&T in the late 1970s while it was founded in 1975? (see microsoft page) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.80.152.28 (talk • contribs) 04:22, September 27, 2006 (UTC)

Why not? Gwen Gale 19:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First Unix/Xenix

"I had the first Xenix distribution (developed by HCR in Toronto) in the US, ahead of Microsoft."

"We ended up selling a few of the boxes. The company was called MSD, located in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The only record of such is in a 1981 (Jan?) issue of Byte with our little ad in the back."

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=29920&cid=3213453

Maybe the Xenix article should mention HCR & MSD?

[edit] HCR

"The actual delivery of Xenix was not done by MS, it was built by Human Computing Resources (HCR) in Toronto. "

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.next.advocacy/msg/1c4b56e1f9099c1b?rnum=8&filter=0

I've added a mention of HCR to the article, with this reference. Letdorf (talk) 11:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC).

[edit] Ronald Michael Baecker - University of Toronto

Founder and CEO, Human Computing Resources Corporation (HCR), 1976-78 (part time), 1978-81 (half time), 1981-84 (full time).

"Founded, led, and built a successful, world class, multi-million dollar software company, HCR Corporation, 1976-84. I founded HCR (formerly, Human Computing Resources Corporation) in 1976, investing $11,000. Between 1978 and 1982, although no other money had been invested, I led the company through growth of 100% per annum to annual revenues of $1.3 million, and to a position as one of the world's premiere companies specializing in UNIX-based software. With the help of venture capital, HCR grew to 1984 annual revenues of $4 million. I hired a new President to run the company in 1984. We sold HCR to the Santa Cruz Operation (SCO) in 1990, and it continued as SCO Canada until early 1996. "

http://kmdi.utoronto.ca/rmb/CV_RMB_2006Nov15.pdf

[edit] Btye article from May 1994

"There were 33 institutions on Ferentz's 1975 list of users; there were 138 in September 1976, 37 of them outside the U.S. And, in 1977, Interactive Systems (Santa Monica, CA) became the first company to support Unix commercially. It was soon followed by Human Computing Resources in Toronto."

http://www.byte.com/art/9410/sec8/art3.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NevilleDNZ (talk • contribs) 13:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC).

NevilleDNZ 12:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Early Xenix Versions not mentioned in article

I worked in a Tandy Computer Centre around 1985. I took to Xenix in a big way and ended up collecting a few of The Tandy's. I also ended up with a lot of manuals. (All gone now..) The TRS-80 Model 16a - 16b were 8" floppy. The first Xenix I could find (I ended up working in Tandy Australia's Head Office - Doing Computer Support) Was Version 7. Not System III. Version 7 shipped with TRS-80 Model 16a's. 16b's were sold with the Version 7 and needed to be upgraded to System III when it became available. I would say that all Tandy Model 6000's (the last in the range) were sold with System III. Althought the earlier System 7 would operate. There were subtle hardware differences between the 2 models. Therefore System III seemed the better choice. Also the system 7 implimentation plain and simple had more issues. The System III version had more bells and whistles. Of course developement systems were available to both flavours of Xenix. The source of both versions contained SCO and Microsoft ownership messages. So SCO and Microsoft were involved in Xenix pre System III. I also had an early Tandy Xenix manual that described the proceedure for bootstrapping Xenix on a PDP11 from a tape backup unit. It was supplied as a guide with one of the early tandy units I picked up. That unit was running 8" winchester 8MB hard disks from memory. But the manual wasn't relevant to use to boot with. It was more as a early system admin guide. I think some of this needs to be mentioned. The earlier versions of Xenix were supplied on 8" floppy. No one mentioned Cromemco? When we were selling the TRS-80 Model 16a (for AU $10k basic system) the Cromemco was our nearest competitor in cost terms? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.173.51.90 (talk) 05:58, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intel?

Intel made computers? Intel is a chipmaker, I don't think they ever made a complete computer therefore why would they OEM Xenix??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.28.136 (talk) 02:58, 14 April 2008 (UTC)