Talk:Wuthering Heights
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[edit] On Heathcliff Dying "broken and tormented"
It says this both on the main page and on the character page- it also says he let up on his plans mostly due to his seeing the two young people in love- while this latter may be the case, there is no evidence of it in the novel- the novel seems to leave open the possibility that he lets up on them because he is indifferent to them, and preoccupied with the apparition of his Catherine, who is now haunting him seemingly day and night and seems to have informed him, somehow, of his impending death, where he might rejoin her. Now considering that, how did he die broken and tormented? He dies more happily than any other character in the book- he dies smiling- he dies saying he doesn't need a priest to bless him or teach him, because he'll be going to HIS heaven- where are 'broken and tormented' coming from, in all that? That's the source material- the synopsis given at this site is from nowhere but the imagination of a reader who clearly is not very attentive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TannerPW3 (talk • contribs) 04:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I've added an infobox, but it is very incomplete. Could someone who knows more about this book please expand it? ~Sushi 10:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Timeline
Readers might find the following useful (from Richard Wilcocks) :
Time in Wuthering Heights
1500 A Hareton Earnshaw builds Wuthering Heights 1757 Hindley Earnshaw is born, probably Ellen Dean as well 1762 Edgar Linton born 1764 Heathcliff born 1765 Catherine Earnshaw born 1766 Isabella Linton born 1771 Heathcliff is brought to Wuthering Heights by Mr Earnshaw (late summer) 1773 Mrs Earnshaw dies 1774 Hindley is sent off to college 1777 Hindley marries Frances; Mr Earnshaw dies; Hindley comes back (October); Catherine goes to stay at Thrushcross Grange (November), then returns to Wuthering Heights (Christmas). 1778 Hareton is born (June); Frances dies (autumn) 1780 Heathcliff runs away from Wuthering Heights; Mr and Mrs Linton both die 1783 Catherine marries Edgar (April); Heathcliff comes back (September) 1784 Heathcliff marries Isabella (January); Catherine dies and Cathy is born (20 March)' Hindley dies; Linton Heathcliff is born (September) 1797 Isabella dies; Cathy visits Wuthering Heights and meets Hareton; Linton is brought to Thrushcross Grange and is then taken to Wuthering Heights 1800 Cathy mets Heathcliff and sees Linton again (20 March) 1801 Cathy and Linton are married (August); Edgar dies (September); Linton dies (October); Mr Lockwood goes to Thrushcross Grange and visits Wuthering Heights, beginning his narrative 1802 Mr Lockwood goes back to London (Janauary); Heathcliff dies (May); Mr Lockwood comes back to Thrushcross Grange 1803 Cathy marries Hareton
Thirty-four chapters deal with the events of nearly as many years. Just three dates are actually mentioned in the whole text (apart from the "1500" over the door of Wuthering Heights) but just about everything that takes place can be dated fairly accurately. "Real time" is less than a year - from November 1801 to September 1802.
I plan to remove the redirect from "Heathcliff" and make it a disambiguation. Heathcliff is also the name of a cat in a comic strip. Jay 17:35, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- Done. Maybe now someone can create a new article on Heathcliff the character. Jay 06:00, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)
It would be nice if someone would mention Brontë's intent when writing Wuthering Heights. it would be nice to have a paragraph about Brontë's criticism of class structures and her views on love, rebirth, etc. pie4all88 00:38, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Catherine's son????
"His love for Catherine is all-encompassing. He ruins her life and that of her son's in order to avenge her betrayal."
She didn't have a son did she?
Also, it was as much Edgar not accepting Heathcliff's position as Catherine's oldest friend as Heathcliff's actions which caused Catherine's demise.—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])
The writer mean's daughter, I guess. Or Isabella and Heathcliff's son, or Hindley's son, which makes more sense as Heathcliff turns him into a brute. I've added that. Oh, and he kills Earnshaw via alcoholism, I don't think that's as prominent as the other two though, and the list might as well say 'everybody.'Ethan Duffy 21:17, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Joseph Earnshaw??????????
LOL! What relation was he to them? He was their factotum!
Whovere wrote this has denied themselves a great pleasure as they have obviously never read this masterpiece.
[edit] Tidied Up
This article needs to be tidied up. The plot and story needs expanding and the "Role-Playing Game Adaptation" and "In Music" parts need their own pages Cokehabit 19:56, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
I've expanded the plot and I will add some critical analysis at another point Cokehabit 17:05, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Disambiguation
Could someone create a disambiguation page, besides this novel, there's not only the song but also the group Wuthering Heights.
I'm not really sure how to create that page myself :) Absolute Zero 13:50, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Spoilers!!
Meh... Either the table of contents needs to be edited ("Heathcliff dies") or we need to somehow shove a spoiler warning in there. Bah.
- Also I found this surprising. I haven't read this but was probably planning to, and that table has ruined it all! *sobs* 81.76.55.251 22:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Heathcliff....Hero, or villain?
what do you guys think? i would like to hear your opinions.~angrodnenharma~
- While it's an interesting question, Wikipedia is not supposed to be the place for our opinions. Rather, it's intended to be a place to express the opinions of third parties through a neutral point of view. Ziggurat 03:44, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
hey ziggurat, in the neutral point of view, it states that the NPOV is used on the articles, and it says nothing about it being in the disscusion of the articles, or am i mistaken? MysteriousStranger 20:12, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
good point up there. ^^^ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.130.73.249 (talk) 03:07, August 21, 2007 (UTC)
I'd vouch for Byronic hero. -Annon3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.251.219.101 (talk) 14:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Does WH romanticize abusiveness?
I recently removed some highly opinionated comments that opine that WH romanticizes domestic abuse. I actually tend to agree with that assessment. As with all discussions of controversies, there's a fine line between reporting the existence of the controversy and taking sides in the controversy. To the person who posted that text, I'd like to suggest finding some scholarly studies done on the controversy and reporting on what those studies say. Also see if you can find some opposing views that deal directly with the issue.
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- FIRST RESEARCH, THEN CREATE. Not the other way around. Why sully the article in such a fashion. Without a single citation, it's useless. It also looks amateurish, as if someone came along and inserted a sentence from the ethers of their own mind. In parallel, I could create a section: "Possible Allegories & Symbolism of Sodomy in Wuthering Heights" and write: "Some critics claim that there are symbolic and allegoric references to sodomy in the novel".
[edit] Nice spoilers
I was looking this page up for more general background info on the book and say that "Heathcliff dies" as one of the headers, before the spoilers tag. Seriously, what the hell? Why have that spoilers tag if there are spoilers in the table of contents? Can someone fix it? I'd like to but I fear running into more spoilers. Hbdragon88 05:04, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
- done. kinda... 'Part one', 'part two', and 'part three' aren't very creative headings, but there really isn't much else that isn't a spoiler. btw, please don't swear. ~Sushi 10:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Musical/Opera versions
Are the two "musicals" mentioned in the opener, the two opera mentioned at the end? If not, some clarification on those musicals would be good. 144.173.6.67 12:54, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Well to be honest it doesn't actually spoil the book that Heathcliff dies, and if that really is 'spoiler' then why do you read? Its not the ending that makes the book its how the author pieces things together —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.203.189.91 (talk) 18:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Unreliable Narrator?
Wuthering Heights is a good example of the unreliable narrator (it's a story told by a man retelling a story told by a woman who was not present at most of the events in the book). Should this be discussed in the article? Pearce.duncan 01:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Maybe in passing, but Nelly's sub-narration is really only told directly through Nelly, and anything not directly seen by her is said through other characters, again in a first-person style. Lockwood is circumlocutory and self-persuasive but Bronte does not write in that style for much of the novel.Ethan Duffy 22:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Summary and characters
I just did some re-arranging of the plot summary - it seemed a bit disjointed and disordered before (including a 'part three' heading, despite the fact that the novel is only two volumes - according to my copy, at least). I also added a brief summary of the main characters, since I think it's useful for readers to have a quick guide to who the main characters are without having to read through the entire plot summary to get this information. Any comments are, of course, welcome.--Joseph Q Publique 13:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Wuthering Heights
This is one of my untimate favorite book! When I read this book, the passionate love scriptures painted a scene in my mind. Giving me the benefit of understanding what Emily was trying to show us. It is a book filled with many unfolded wonders that no other book that I have read had done. Emily is and was a one of a kind author.
Now Jane Eyre is another of my all time favorite book! This book showed how love may find its way through so many troubles through lives. And through those lives you have to make very important decisions that will affect your life that you will have to live. Charlotte was showing her readers how life could be in the real world...
The Brontë sisters have done a magnificent job presenting to their readers about love and how it may turn into a disaster but you can work it out in the end...or can you? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.112.17.30 (talk) 20:52, 21 March 2007 (UTC).
This is very obviously a horrendously written book, and this much can be inferred from just the first five chapters. After reading the entire ordeal, I can further mention that the ending is unsatisfactory and like the rest of the book is a drawn-out bore. I'd go back in time and shoot Bronte shortly after burning her manuscripts, if the technology existed. This comment is irrelevant, but no moreso than yours. -Annon-3
[edit] Spam
I'm not going to commit a potential 3RR but the link being added to the article is spam. A Project Gutenberg version of Wuthering Heights is already linked and the link being added (if you fix the mangled URL, as is the address is not even correct) is a link to a site advertising all sorts of prom dresses next to the Wuthering Heights text -- clearly unacceptable. Would someone please fix? --JayHenry 01:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Songs...
I just noticed Albert Niiland's cover of the Kate Bush song wasn't mentioned at all even though it is an excellent acoustic version and one of my favourite songs. Check it out! (Excellent book!)
[edit] Other Allusions
When did Steinman say "Total Eclipse of the Heart" was a reference? I can find no record of this. There was once an interview when "It's All Coming Back to Me" was being discused and he mentioned WH. 24.211.249.43 00:49, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
- Total Eclipse of the Heart" ... by Jim Steinman, inspired by the novel.
- Doubts seconded. Here's the Steinman interview: Jim Steinman On "It's All Coming Back To Me Now". A thorough Google and News search finds no refs to TEOTH referring to WH, even on the official Steinman site, beyond very recent unattributed ones that might have derived from Wikipedia. Gordonofcartoon 03:28, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Incorrect spelling in caption
One of the captions refers to a Northern Yorkeshire. There should be no E in the middle. I would correct this myself, except I have no idea how to edit a caption. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.29.39.33 (talk • contribs) 19:16, 30 July 2007.
[edit] Heathcliff
Maybe this belongs on the article specifically about Heathcliff, but I think it might get less of a response there. Isn't his name actually "Heathcliff Heathcliff", not just "Heathcliff"? In Chapter 4 it says that Heathcliff is both his surname and his Christian name: "it has served him ever since, both for Christian and surname". - 12.218.12.61 04:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
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- I think that Nelly meant that it worked both as a first name and as a last name, not that it was his first and last name. The fact that he doesn't have a family name is an important aspect of his character and identity - He doesn't belong to anyone. CaptainJae 23:53, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] eclipse
In Stephenie Meyer's novel Eclipse, Wuthering Heights is mentioned several times. Should there be any mention of that in the literary refrence section? Sophiakorichi 03:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)Sophiakorichi
[edit] Incorrect dates/ages
According to the timeline given here, Catherine Earnshaw was 18 when she died. According to page 57 in my edition of Wuthering Heights, Catherine Earnshaw was 22 years old when she accepted Edgar Linton's marriage proposal. Nelly says, "'Do you love Mr Edgar?' Catherine - 'Who can help it? Of course I do,' she answered. Then I put her through the following catechism - for a girl of twenty-two, it was not injudicious." Unless, it is saying that Nelly was 22 when she gave Catherine this advice, but that doesn't seem to fit in the context. Maybe someone could try to fix the dates; I haven't got the time to do it myself. - Lyr 12.218.6.81 02:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I researched the character's ages for my website and Catherine was certainly 18 (just possibly 19) when she died. She was 15 when Edgar proposed and Ellen was 22 so Ellen is referring to her own age (that she was talking to her in a mature way for someone quite young). Lowenna (talk) 14:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] moved Trivia
I moved Trivia from article to Talk below, in case there's anything worth merging as prose into the article (nothing in my opinion). I first removed some linkspam.-Wikianon 03:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Trivia
- "Heavenly Creatures" (1994) a film directed by Peter Jackson and starring Kate Winslett and Melanie Lynskey depicts a perverted and obssesive love affair between two young girls. The basis of their obssession is their mutual inhabitation of a fantasy world populated by lead figurines. While this film is based on a true story much of its content echoes the life of Charlotte and Emile Bronte and the obssessive love and need for revenge demonstrated in "Wuthering Heights".
- In a scene of Cold Mountain, Ada Monroe reads to Ruby Thewes an excerpt of Wuthering Heights.
- Wuthering Heights is often mentioned in the Twilight series (written by Stephenie Meyer) as one of the main character's favorite books.
- Wuthering heights was recently voted the UK's favourite love story of all time by the "Guardian" newspaper in a poll commissioned by UKTV Drama, beating Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" and Shakespeare's "Romeo and Juliet" to the top spot.
