Wikipedia talk:Writing better articles

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[edit] tense of speech

Should we refer to speeches in the present tense, or the past tense? The section on WP:TENSE currently refers only to fiction, and at least some speeches are not fictional :-).

I feel that non-fictional speeches and books also "exist in a kind of perpetual present tense".

This was drawn to my attention when I saw the 2008 State of the Union Address edited to convert it from the future tense to the past tense. Currently it claims

The 2008 State of the Union Address was a speech given by...

which rubs me the wrong way.

It was a speech? Pray tell, what is it now?

I would prefer

The 2008 State of the Union Address is a speech that was given by... (the speech itself is in the perpetual present tense)

but I would also be satisfied with

The 2008 State of the Union Address was given by... (a particular delivery of the speech, in the past, in the past tense)

The first sentence in the Wikipedia articles of a few arbitrarily chosen examples from the List of speeches:

Most of these seem to support the idea that even non-fictional speeches "exist in a kind of perpetual present tense". Should the remaining ones in the past-tense be "corrected" to the present tense? Or is there some reason Wikipedia should use the past tense to refer to some (or all) speeches? How should we update WP:TENSE to also include speeches?

--68.0.124.33 (talk) 01:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Debate over tone

There is debate here Talk:Film_noir#Tone_issues over tone in an article. Perhaps those interested in such a topic can give their input.--Crossmr (talk) 15:11, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TRADUCCIÓN DEL ARTÍCULO

Hola, podrian traducir este artículo al idioma español?, me sería muy útil su ayuda.

Gracias —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.248.251.79 (talk) 18:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Véase es.wikipedia.org por favor. - Dan (talk) 19:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Be concise" (etc)

Unusually for a quotation from Strunk, the one in the article ("Vigorous writing is concise....") isn't fatuous. I even agree with it. But then:

The ideal method of specifying on-going events is "as of 2008". Wikipedia "grammar bots" will replace these types of expressions with correct wording.

Ugh.

For a start, how about The best way to report the current state is "as of 2008"?

Presumably "these types of expressions" -- Does this perhaps mean "this type of expression" or "these expressions"? -- are "'at the present time' or 'currently'", rather than "as of 2008". If so, then there's nothing unconcise about "currently", so I don't know why it's mentioned in this section; but that little point aside, if some grammar bottie is anyway going to convert such expressions into "as of 2008", then why is the reader being told to write "as of 2008"? -- Hoary (talk) 13:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Part of the puzzle is here: Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:As of. Result was "no consensus"; I wasn't successful in getting people to take a stand one way or the other. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 14:05, 25 May 2008 (UTC)