Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Star Trek/archive3

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Contents

saucer sep

Given the overlap of saucer separation, saucer section and stardrive section, it would make sense to consider merging them : they all seem to basically contain overlapping information about saucer separation, and it's hard really to imagine how to restructure them otherwise. Even a saucer landing seems tied in with the concept of saucer separation. Any thoughts? I note quite a lot of the stuff here is original research, anyway. Morwen - Talk 16:28, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

CFD notice

Removed cfdnotice, cfd has completed. --Kbdank71 14:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Please also note Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 February 20 for a review of the decision regarding Category:Actors by series. Tim! 08:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

CFD notice

Removed cfdnotice, cfd has completed. --Kbdank71 14:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Memorable quotes sections = non-npov?

Anyone else think these are a little gratuitous or, at best, arbitrary? Is there a way to cite these assorted quotes as "memorable"? --EEMeltonIV 00:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Quotes actually belong at Wikiquote :-)! thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 00:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Source for tech info needed

Over at Space warfare in fiction there's a short paragraph on the major weapons used in space combat in Star Trek. But there's no sources for it. I'm sure somebody must have a reliable reference we can use for this information...? JulesH 19:10, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. thanks/Fenton, Matthew Lexic Dark 52278 Alpha 771 19:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Star Trek race template

I have a modified version of the {{Star Trek race}} template at my sandbox. I have added a field for the Emblem of each race so that they would be displayed on white background as opposed to the coloured background in the current template. If you agree that it loos better on a white background them it can be implemented on the live template.--NeilEvans 18:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I've implemented the emblem parameter.--NeilEvans 23:01, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Delete redundant navigation templates?

Considering that Template:ST episode contains the same information in a less-obtrusive way, can we can go ahead and delete

  • Template:TNG navigation
  • Template:DS9 navigation
  • Template:ENT navigation
  • Template:VOY navigation

once all the episode articles have the ST episode template smacked onto 'em?

Additionally, while I appreciate that the various TOS navigation templates -- Template:TOS Navigation (Season 1), Template:TOS Navigation (Season 2) and Template:TOS Navigation (Season 3) -- offer additional information (specifically, both broadcast and production order), does production order strike anyone as a means by which (m)any casual Wikipedia users will navigate through episodes? --EEMeltonIV 05:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and to answer your question, many ST fans would be interested in production order, and it is more than reasonable to assume that many know about Wikipedia. That said, I would say it would be better to incorporate production next/previous as an optional parameter of the infobox. Koweja 04:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
The Voyager episodes have been cleaned out and VOY navigation is up for deletion at TFD - Koweja 19:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Template:TNG navigation is done and nominated for TFD as well. Koweja 03:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, it looks like ENT episodes don't have an infobox yet, but once they do Template:ENT navigation can go as well. Koweja 04:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Templates

Perhaps I'm in the minority here, or even out to lunch, but personally I'd rather see the link at the bottom of the Trek episode pages link into the very beautiful "List of Star Trek: The xxx episodes" rather than the flat and uninspiring "Category:Star Trek: xxxx episodes". Also Re: the new StarTrek.com link template, I would prefer seeing the actual name of the episode being linked to, the same as all (or most of) our other Wiki links look, with the episode name in quotes per Wiki standards. 63.215.122.7 22:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've changed the template so it now shows the page name instead of "episode name". As for the navigation the problem is that the templates are unnecessary due to the infobox. It contains a link to the episode list - just click "episode chronology". Koweja 00:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Koweja, looks good, thank you, appreciate the clarification re: "episode chronology". Great job! Wikidenizen 14:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

To Create: Vulcan Language

I'd like to start working on this area, but I wanted confirmation on structure. I'm guessing it should consist of Vulcan words used in the many series and movies (with a separate non-canon section for the novels, of course). However, very few of the words are directly defined within episodes or movies. How should I go about indicating the differences among:

the term Ponn Farr, which is directly defined in the episode Amok Time
the suffix -kam, which is introduced in TWOK and seems to have an affectionate/dimunitive purpose like the Japanese -chan, but is never directly defined
the term Ko N'ya, which is translated as "Devil's Heart" in the TNG novel The Devil's Heart but is never menitoned in the series at all?

I'm new to Wiki and don't know much about the rules, so if someone could either give me instruction or direct me to a link, I'll start adding to the project. Thanks.SkepticalGal 19:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Welcome to Wiki and also to the Star Trek project, maybe you can use the Klingon language page as a starting point as to how to structure the article.--NeilEvans 23:48, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Is it correct to say that nothing outside of TV Star Trek is canon, so you can't really draw on Vulcan in any novel. Besides, Vulcan isn't a language in the sense that the Klingon language is, with a proper structure and rules Alastairward 15:45, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia can mention non-canonical material, as long as it's referenced, non-trivial etc (so you can't use blogs or message boards as refs). Vulcan may not be an established language but there may be references to it in "making of" books & documentaries, interviews with directors and writers etc. Totnesmartin 17:06, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Romulan "Bird Of Prey"

I'd like to bring this subject up again, as I believe it to be significant. Why precisely are we referring to the Romulan ships of TOS and ENT as "Birds of Prey?" They were never identified by that name on either of those shows and Paramount (the owners and operators of the Star Trek franchise and mythos) does not recognize that name for that ship. The term is conjectural and is used by fandom. Some months ago, I did mention this when I added this fact into the trivia section of the Romulan starships article, but I believe it is important to at least consider puting that data into the sections pertaining to the ships themselves, as it will make Wikipedia appear even more objective and impartial toward Star Trek. Darin Wagner 14:01, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Spock article hijacked

Sorry if this ain't the right place to mention it, but the Spock article seems to have been hijacked on March 21st 2007. So if anyone could correct that it would be nice.Thanks. ( Chris ) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.219.126.28 (talk) 14:18, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

Move request: Star Trek XI or Star Trek (film)?

A move request has recently been filed concerning the title of the film due for release in December 2008. Please discuss at Talk:Star Trek (film). --Stemonitis 16:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Where No One Has Gone Before move

I have put this up for WP:RM. See Talk:Where No One Has Gone Before#Requested move. Simply south 19:04, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Redundant project?

I'm guessing all of you are familiar with Memory Alpha (and Memory Beta for the non-canon stuff), so I really don't see the point in this whole project, when everything that is on here or planned to be on here has already been done elsewhere. A simple link to those two wikis on the Star Trek main page ought to suffice. The rest just seems to be a way for some trekkie-wikiers or wiki-trekkies to pass time... --dllu 22:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

MA is laden with speculation and unsourced assertions. Wikipedia also doesn't discriminate against including content because it doesn't meet Paramount's definition of canon. Wikipedia also benefits from the presence of non-trekkie editors who can offer unbiased input during disputes and otherwise offer objective critiques. Wikipedia also has a notability standard that keeps negligible minutae -- e.g. "dunsel" -- from getting its own article and appearing to be as significant as, say, James T. Kirk. --EEMeltonIV 02:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use images rationale

List of Star Trek characters is using fair use images without the REQUIRED rationale on the image description page. Rationale must be provided for each use. I posted a similar comment on that article's talk page more than a week ago without any response or action. I will continue removing the images from time to time unless someone provides the rationale. I will not do so because I do not believe this is an appropriate use of fair use images. RedWolf 22:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

As it happens I'm having a bit of a problem working out in advance what images i can and cannot use in a projected article on Star Trek Fan audio dramas which I will be splitting off from the Star Trek Fan Productions page. The Wikipedian who removed the test image for Star Trek: Eras focussed on the use of copyright material without a fair use rationale. Is this how the use of a similar image on the Star Trek: Hidden Frontier infoBox was made possible?--Kirok of L'Stok 16:04, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Moving The Time Trap (TAS episode) page

Could somebody move Star Trek - The Time Trap back to The Time Trap (TAS episode)? It was first moved to The Time Trap then somebody moved it again. Koweja 16:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

CFD notice

Removed cfdnotice, cfd has completed. --Kbdank71 14:55, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Episode articles moved (again)

I have noticed that several TNG episode articles have moved from "<episode name> (TNG episode)" to "<episode name> (Star Trek: The Next Generation)". Was there a consensus about the move? Either they should be changed back, or this project page needs updating to explain the correct format. Marky1981 13:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

They should be reverted - they haven't been discussed. Matthew 13:22, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Memory Alpha template

I just created Template:Memory Alpha, using Template:FreeContentMeta. This is part of a larger project of trying to promote other free content sites that offer information on fictional topics in the hopes that we can start using the differences between ourselves and sites like Memory Alpha to our advantage, moving in-universe content and stuff primarily of interest to fans instead of generalists to those sites. (Obviously Memory Alpha is harder here because it's not GFDL)

I note that Template:Memoryalpha also exists. This template is problematic, as we discourage templates that act like they're plaintext. Would it cause undue chaos if I were to redirect this template to Template:Memory Alpha? Phil Sandifer 23:51, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I've done this now. The only problem I can see is cases where our article is at a different name than Memory Alpha's article. These cases can probably be most easily corrected by just creating a redirect at Memory Alpha, though if you wanted you could probably create some template jiggery-pokery that would, if there's an argument given in the template call, change the destination from PAGENAME to the argument call. In any case, if this caused any headaches, my apologies - it doesn't look like it should. Phil Sandifer 14:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Most MA entries in External Links are preceded by a *; now that the MA stuff is floating on the right, there's a goofy-looking solitary bullet on the right side of the screen. Could you please use AWB or some such to clean this up? --EEMeltonIV 14:29, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
I'll go looking for a Mac tool, or see if I can get somebody to tidy that up. (AWB doesn't play well with my Mac). Phil Sandifer 15:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
You've also created a series of double-redirects; take a look at Spock. Please use the What Links Here bit for memoryalpha and alter those other redirects as appropriate. --EEMeltonIV 14:31, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Those I can get. Phil Sandifer 15:39, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Now fixed. Phil Sandifer 15:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

As an update, I've now fixed the template to use the old argument calls, so if there's an argument call it will link to the correct Memory Alpha article automatically now. Phil Sandifer 19:55, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Deleting the cast photo from Star Trek: Enterprise

Discussion currently underway at: Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion/2007_May_31#Image:StarTrekEnterprise_Cast.jpg. Jenolen speak it! 09:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

In fact, the cast photo has now been deleted by an admin who believes free content could adequately replace that copyrighted image. The deletion review is at Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_June_15#Image:StarTrekEnterprise_Cast.jpg. Jenolen speak it! 00:18, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Naming issues

I have some issues with the Article Title guidelines on the project page. First of all, I think use of TLAs in article titles is grossly inappropriate. On a Star Trek wiki, they might be sufficient, but Wikipedia is a general encyclopedia, and it is unreasonable to assume that they have any significance for members of the general populace. There is no basis to believe that readers will understand the TLAs or seek the articles under those titles. Wikipedia:Naming conventions, an official policy, specifies that “Names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists.”. TLAs make for great shortcuts, but that’s what redirects are for. Article titles should be fully spelled out, with redirects from the short titles to the full to facilitate linking.

Second, there is a subseries of naming conventions specifically dealing with TV-related articles. It specifies that article titles need include “episode” only if it is necessary to disambiguate from another article with the same title related to the same series.( For instance disambiguating the ENT episode “Terra Prime” from the organization of the same name in the series.) It also recommends redirects from disambiguated titles to articles which do not require disambiguation, to prevent the creation of duplicate articles( e.g., redirecting Spock’s Brain (Star Trek) and Spock’s Brain (Star Trek episode) to Spock’s Brain so that no one mistakenly creates articles at those titles).--WikidSmaht (talk) 00:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I've updated the page to comply with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television). Acegikmo1 18:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Phantasms

Please see the proposed name change at Talk:Phantasms. -- Beardo 17:42, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Name was changed, discussion is at: Talk:Phantasms (Star Trek: The Next Generation) 132.205.44.134 21:31, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Various IFD nominations

Various IFD nominations on ST photos are located here. The Evil Spartan 20:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

We may as well just replace all the images with screen captures from the episode -- thus nullifying the non-promotional concern. Matthew 20:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Star Trek: Legacy

It seems to me that the project is concentrating on the other aspects of Star Trek too much. Star Trek: Legacy, one of the many Star Trek games which is also marked as a member article of the project, is an article that I think should be reworked entirely. NPOV seems to be a problem in the article, as does a poorly written "plot summary". Several have already complained on the article's talk page, and I think this article should be added to the WikiProject: Star Trek task list. I own the game, and plan to do some work on the article soon, also.
--FastLizard4 (Talk|Contribs) 04:43, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Episode coverage

The WikiProject Television episode coverage taskforce have recently been working on a review process for episode articles. There are a rash of articles about individual episodes which fail notability, and are unlikely to ever reach such requirements. Many contributors are unaware of the specific guidelines to assess notability in episode pages: Wikipedia:Television episodes. We have expanded these guidelines to make them more helpful and explanatory, and we invite you to read the guidelines, and make any comments on its talk page. After much discussion, we have created a proposed review process for dealing with problem articles. See: Wikipedia:Television article review process. We invite discussion of this process on its talk page. General comments about this whole process are welcome at the episode coverage taskforce talkpage. Thanks! Gwinva 10:13, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Star Trek fan productions

This article is frankly pretty poor - I would suggest members of this special interest group try and find some decent sources for it before it is reduced to a stub. --Fredrick day 23:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

As long as users follow Etiquette, don't use provactive terms like "cruftopedian", refrain from confrontationist reversions without explanation and provide clear and tangible reasons for deletions then the article can only be improved "before it is reduced to a stub" Fredrick day refuses to explain why he feels that the sources are insufficient so that the article can be improved. It is impossible to improve something when you do not know what the parameters are --Kirok of L'Stok 07:42, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
"The parameters" are set out in Wikipedia's policies on verifiable reliable sources for notable material. The article in question does a wholly inadequate job establishing this for most of the productions it lists, and marginally accomplishes it for the legal section. --EEMeltonIV 07:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
...But I agree that Fredrick day (talk · contribs) might have gotten this across clearer had their posts been less vitriolic. --EEMeltonIV 07:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. Now if someone could give me an example in the Talk page of the article (as I have asked for) of one or two links that are deemed to be insufficient and why, I will see what can be done to repair them. A little less jargon would help too - I cannot address his concerns about the Fan Films Paramount rulings until I know what "OR" is.--Kirok of L'Stok 07:56, 27 June 2007 (UTC)