Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scottish Islands

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[edit] Top priority stubs

The following is a list of stubs, which are earmarked as top priority. Maybe some people could see to expanding/improving them. I have been working on expanding the shorter articles on the main Orkney islands.

--MacRusgail 17:24, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Moving images to Wikimedia commons

If you see a free image which belongs on Wikimedia Commons, but don't want to move it yourself, just tag it with {{islandcopy}}. This will add to to a category, and someone else will move it for you. If you want to help move pages that have been tagged with this template, add Category:Scottish Island images for Wikimedia Commons to your watchlist. There already is a category for free images to be copied to commons, but there is quite a backlog. This will enable us to keep track of images relevant to our WikiProject without them getting lost in the crowd. Lurker (said · done) 15:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

You will find a few waiting for you now... all the best. --MacRusgail 18:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested articles

Wikipedia:WikiProject Scottish Islands/Requested articles has been substantially expanded. Please feel free to put any relevant requests on there.

--MacRusgail (talk) 01:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Naming conventions

There is a request for input from WPSI members at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (settlements)#Scotland guidelines. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 20:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Prods

I have prodded Hilton, Argyll and Bute and in my view Hilton, Orkney is in a similar category (i.e. it is a farm or a small group of houses not a 'village'). However, those who know Shapinsay may have a view on this. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 19:10, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The author of Hilton, Bute is contesting my logic. Nothing daunted I have prodded Biruaslum. It's a small island, not a village, but I can't see it ever making an article. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 21:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The hilton articles have been unprodded. You'll have to nominate them through AfD if you want them gone. Lurker (said · done) 14:35, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and there is only one real village on Shapinsay- Balfour. Lurker (said · done) 14:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I only prodded the Bute one. It might be handy to have an 'Articles for deletion' heading on the main page. I'll stick one up and see how it goes. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 17:59, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with Proddies, it's only a minority who are small minded. (Joke). Personally I don't have a huge problem with these places having articles, after all, many of them were there ten years ago, and will be there in ten years time, which is more than can be said for some of the ephemera on wikipedia. Sodom, Shetland (really "Sudheim" - thanks again OS!) is notable partly because of its name, and the Hugh MacDiarmid connection which has meant it is mentioned in many books, but it isn't a big place.

It would be best to turn these articles into redirects, if anything, rather than blanking the pages. This could be done with some of the "villages" in South Uist. --MacRusgail (talk) 18:03, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Well feel free to remove the prod from Biruaslum, plus all the text and add something about its actual status. I fear it won't get much beyond a stub. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 22:41, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I have been studying Shapinsay a bit, and there is at least one other place which could be considered a settlement - Sandgarth in the south east. It appears on several maps, with a number of houses marked. I have turned Biruaslum into a stack... and removed the prod. --MacRusgail (talk) 15:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I suspect Burrastow is less of a village and more of a farm. Burwick even more so. Any comments? Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 21:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I have amended both articles, enlarging on their actual nature and removing references to 'villages'. The OS Gazetteer would seem to be a rather sloppy source and I fear there are more hidden away in our stubs. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 12:06, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR + Vandalism - Barra & Stornoway

One user has been responsible for vandalism and reversions on Barra, there has been a 3RR report on Barra here. I'd be quite grateful of any additional input, particularly if there are any administrators who can block the user.MRM (talk) 18:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I notice this egregious vandal was given a 24 hour block. I fear he/she/it will be back. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 21:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
There's a lot of vandalism going on, and in such cases, it's worth listing it on our front page in the section "Pages prone to POV pushing, vandalism, or that otherwise need watching" or on the WP Scotland equivalent. --MacRusgail (talk) 18:05, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A very useful map

Crank this up to a high resolution. It may be inaccurate, and it may be difficult to read, but I'm sure it can be put to use!

--MacRusgail (talk) 00:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Oppose merge of Midgarth

Perhaps the Midgarth page should not be merged with Linga Holm. It seems that each page has sound sources and has a distinct character. It is also much more helpful to our encylclopaedia when an in-link comes to a unique topic not an amalgam. Cheers. Hadrianheugh (talk) 00:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the first question is: are they one and the same? Scotgaz seems to think so calling the island "Linga Holm (Midgarth Holm)". I can't see any obvious evidence that they are different. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 08:19, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I think we should tread carefully, since it is not the first small islands have been confused. Perhaps ask an Orcadian who's up on these things?--MacRusgail (talk) 18:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

If there are clearly the same, then a merge is ok with me, but I have to agree with MacRusgail to tread carefully until we are sure. The issue of habitation seems to differentiate, but I don't really profess to know whether or not they are one and the same. Cheers. Hadrianheugh (talk) 22:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Checking OS maps, there's no sign of any island called Midgarth anywhere around there, so I suspect it is the same place. And the census reference seems to describe it as near Stronsay, as Linga Holm is. Plus the population figure given does much that in the Linga Holm article (6 people in 1841). Note that there is a small hamlet called Midgarth on mainland Orkney (and two in Shetland) - the map shows "Knowe of Midgarth" near this hamlet, which I assume is the knowe that the article refers to (and the Megalithic reference) - see HY3923. --Vclaw (talk) 03:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I am satisfied with the rendition of Vclaw, and a merge now sounds fine. We can always split later if contrary findings are made. Cheers. Hadrianheugh (talk) 14:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Comment - merges are better than deletes IMHO, at least the article goes somewhere.--MacRusgail (talk) 23:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I have merged Linga Holm into Midgarth. There is a case to be made for doing it the other way round, but I did it this way as there are so many other Lingas already. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 19:47, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to disagree with you - while I take the point about the Lingas, Midgarth is the northern part of Stronsay! It should be the Holm of Midgarth if anything. Go to Getmap to the third biggest circle on the zoom function, and look at Stronsay. Midgarth is marked next to Whitehall. --MacRusgail (talk) 21:59, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Feel free to swop them round - I am not at all attached to this outcome. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 09:28, 21 February 2008 (UTC) PS I am beginning to suspect further confusion. See 'Knowe of Midgarth' at HY398236 on the mainland, which looks more like the kind of structure mentioned. See also [1].

[edit] Fame

Does anyone know how Fame is defined for Wiki articles?

Personally, I feel that the list on Stornoway is a little over-populated with "famous" people that even someone from the town has never heard off. Is a youth-worker famous? Someone (with no account) keeps adding them. MRM (talk) 12:31, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements#Notable people for some suggestions. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 13:38, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] RfA

See Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Deacon of Pndapetzim. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 08:45, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessments

There are probably a few more articles out there without WPSI banners, but for now at least the business of assessing those we know about is all but done (see WP:IS/A). Hopefully the comments section will now come into its own - if you have suggestions as to how to improve the article please post them in the 'Article Grading' comments box. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 09:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to The Transhumanist the bug on the comments section seems to be fixed i.e. once one is created you can edit it via the Talk page. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 13:15, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Firths in Orkney and Shetland

The article "firth" makes no mention of the numerous firths in the Northern Isles, other than the Pentland Firth. Perhaps someone might like to take some time to fix it (if not, I'll get around to it at some point!) --MacRusgail (talk) 13:52, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tarbert

Hello team,

There seems to be at least two pairs of East Loch Tarbert and West Loch Tarbert on the west side of Scotland. I discovered this is a problem when recently developing Tarbert, Argyll and Bute and found that the link to West Loch Tarbert is for Tarbert, Outer Hebrides! Does anybody have a suggestion on how to disambiguate these bodies of water? --Jza84 |  Talk  01:02, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Could be West Loch Tarbert and East Loch Tarbert as dab pages and then West Loch Tarbert, Argyll and West Loch Tarbert, Harris et seq, the non-dab articles having a
Not to be confused with West Loch Tarbert, Argyll.
etc. hat.
or
West Loch Tarbert & East Loch Tarbert for Harris and West Loch Tarbert, Argyll & East Loch Tarbert, Argyll, each having the hat per the above.
The former is more logical, but would require fixing about 15 links and creates two more dab pages in addition to:
Tarbert, Tarbet, Tarbert (disambiguation) and Tarbet (disambiguation), the last two being redirects.
Whichever is used, Tarbert (placename) (something of a cross between an article and a dab page) should be updated with all 4 lochs, as should Tarbert.
I'd go for the latter myself, simplicity trumping logic, but either would be OK. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 09:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd say there's no clear primary topic here, as both pairs of loch Tarberts are of about equal importance (note the pages currently linking to West Loch Tarbert are about evenly split in which one they should be referring to). So both pairs should be at disambiguated titles (I agree that 'Harris' and 'Argyll' are probably the best names for disambiguating). If you don't want to create more disambig pages you could make East Loch Tarbert and West Loch Tarbert both redirects to Tarbert (placename), and have links to the lochs there. --Vclaw (talk) 14:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't the disambiguation go to council area rather than former county? I know this makes the titles rather lengthy, if not ugly (East Loch Tarbert, Argyll and Bute!) but the counties were abolished and settlements are not disambiguated to county either. Input welcome, --Jza84 |  Talk  23:21, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Argyll is a historic area that has had a variety of official statuses over the years, including county (and its currently a registration county). IMO its silly to say "East Loch Tarbert is in Argyll and Bute", when it is quite clearly in Argyll, and not in Bute at all. But I don't particularly care either way. I just think it is sometimes more sensible to use well known "areas" (or islands), instead of always using the council areas for disambiguation.(I know there was discussion going on re naming conventions for Scottish places, but I'm not sure if anything in particular was agreed with that). --Vclaw (talk) 23:46, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
No you make a fair point, I just wondered if there was to be any objection about this. I know WP:SCOTLAND and WP:UKGEO tend to avoid disambigation to counties and informal regions. Not meaning to explore this issue to its apex.... surely the bodies of water did not form part of these "land" territories anyway? Wouldn't something like East Loch Tarbert (Harris) (in brackets) therefore be more sensible? --Jza84 |  Talk  00:42, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

There are many. Tairbeart just means an isthmus. --MacRusgail (talk) 15:33, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Vclaw is of course correct about the primacy issue (although I don't think it is likely to be controversial in this case). I also agree that 'Argyll' is perfectly acceptable, and whilst brackets would work, commas have generally been used for Island articles and (so far as I know) for Scottish articles generally. I think we could reasonably argue that for these purposes the Western Isles, and by extension Harris, includes bodies of water adjacent to the land. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 18:53, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I have been trying to think of a way to make a light-hearted addition to this discussion without running the risk of being accused by someone with a sense of humour by-pass of attempting to avoid community policy. If you go to Commons and look for me there you'll see what I mean. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 20:59, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How Can You Help?

I have a minor concern that the complexity that the project offers is perhaps a shade confusing for newer users. I've created a new Wikipedia:WikiProject Scottish Islands/How You Can Help page linked to the main project template and will follow up with some related main project page tweaks asap. Improvements to this new page welcome of course. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 19:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] April & May collaborations

Sorry, I have taken a bit of a backseat for this month, as I have been busy elsewhere. Any suggestions for next month's collaboration?

I suggest going back to somewhere in Orkney, to keep the rotation going.

The Mainland, Orkney article is pretty pitiful, and should be linked up with the relevant pages. --MacRusgail (talk) 16:39, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Onybiddie oot there? --MacRusgail (talk) 18:48, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes - been busy and still haven't tidied up Skye. Happy to do look at Mainland, Orkney, although there is obviously a lot of scope for duplication of Orkney itself. I think it would be useful to have an agreed 'scope of works' if we're going there. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 08:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't have to be fantastically long. It really needs to link into the parishes properly, plus sites of interest etc.--MacRusgail (talk) 13:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
OK - I should have a bit of time this weekend. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 18:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] May

I notice that we have managed to avoid Na h-Eileanan Siar so far. Any suggestions? Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 08:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Church of St Clement, Rodel (something different)/Castlebay/Leverburgh (Leverhulme story is well documented and interesting)/Machair/Great Bernera
The Outer Hebrides (I refuse to call them the "Western Isles" - that's the Hebrides in general - see Dr Johnson etc!) got a lot of attention just prior to the start of WPSI, with Mingulay, St Kilda etc getting a lot of attention. I think for June, we could consider one of the Islands of the Forth, or - if possible - a freshwater island (difficult to get material on most of them. Neither of these have featured yet.--MacRusgail (talk) 14:51, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm afraid I know very little about these eastern and freshwater isles, but I'm willing to give it a bash if you want to make a suggestion. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 18:16, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
I'd go for the Bass Rock - it's mentioned in RLS etc. --MacRusgail (talk) 13:28, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
OK - I do have some lighthouse related stuff. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 17:21, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] June

...is nearly upon us... we might go for some of the Outer Hebridean suggestions above.--MacRusgail (talk) 19:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

? June is now here, but no giant worms in sight. Any suggestions?--MacRusgail
I'm maybe a bit short of time this month - something not too taxing - Biruaslum :)? - or any of the above - or perhaps one of the Barra Isles. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 18:55, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... that came up for deletion. Any decent sources available for expansion?--MacRusgail (talk) 15:07, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I fear not. I was pulling your leg per this trickster. I'd be quite happy with An t-Ob - unless you prefer a challenge at Brahan Seer - in quite an absurd state at present. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 11:26, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I did wonder... Come on, someone, make up our minds for us. I already dictated the last couple! --MacRusgail (talk) 13:42, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Great Bernera it is then. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 21:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Preston Island

Preston Island nr Rosyth (NT0085) = another former island? --MacRusgail (talk) 19:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Possibly - is there any evidence other than the name? Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 17:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Some Geograph entries suggest that it was joined to the mainland by industrial infilling with ash...--MacRusgail (talk) 19:00, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Some info here and here with a map here. It is certainly not a current island, but may have been just under 200ha. Finavon (talk) 12:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Definitely not a current island, but I suppose should be included...--MacRusgail (talk) 13:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Are these images worth uploading?

Is this Hascosay in the background or not? http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/534293

Dunno - but not worth it in my view.

Fuidheigh/Wiay in the background (hilly part) http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/444083

Better than nowt.

Only a tiny bit of Sandray here. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/83673

Not worth it.

Is this Sanndraigh to the left? http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/218857

I think so, with Flodaigh in the background. Not worth it for the former, yes for the latter (if we had an article) - although see below.

Can Linga, Muckle Roe be seen here or not? http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/181546 --MacRusgail (talk) 19:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Can't figure it out but I doubt that its close enough.
This one is a goodie for Bishop's Isles. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/514170
Have you seen the OS Map Checksheet button on Geograph? Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 20:46, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
My favourite!
My favourite!
Another goodie.
Another goodie.
Thanks, I appreciate your advice. The picture of the Bishop's Isles (only just) misses out Sandray - I have been using the OS checksheet! I use it sometimes to get pictures of islands, when they're out of the appropriate square. A view of an island in the distance can register miles away!
I have managed to get a number of lovely new pictures for islands, but one or two still lie frustratingly out of reach! Check 'em out! Was at Killin the other day, so that's how I know about the fascinating Inchbuie...--MacRusgail (talk) 21:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Good pictures. I confess I didn't know it existed. Have you tried Flickr? Some photos are ( I think) available e.g. http://www.flickr.com/photos/dreamisles/2501048833/ Nothing on Sandray tho' Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 21:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I find Flickr very hard to search personally. (I can't view the image thanks to being on an impossibly slow library computer just now!) I did manage to get a lot of pictures of places in the Falkland Islands off Flickr, but it annoys me that are "all rights reserved". Why bother? I've released tonnes of my own pictures into the public domain. If I don't want to, I don't put them on Flickr/Commons etc. --MacRusgail (talk) 13:26, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

A few Flickr images are available, but you are right - it is very frustrating not to be able to use them all. Ben MacDuiTalk/Walk 11:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I just found some excellent ones of Sandray and Wiay (both Wiays) - but I'm not allowed to upload them. Bummer...--MacRusgail (talk) 13:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)