Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Macintosh/Archive 2

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Images

I am removing the images from the templates since they are fairuse and fairuse images can neither be used on user boxes nor on templates. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 22:56, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I trust our substitute is fine with you?--HereToHelp (talk) 03:24, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Image:Applepedia.png
Would that one be okay?
I made an attempt at a better logo at Image:Applepedia.png. Note that this is tagged fairuse for now since I honestly couldn't think of a better tag. Note also that if this one is bad, the crystal Mac OS logo is no better (even if that is tagged as being GPL). -- grm_wnr Esc 18:37, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Somebdoy re-added all the images which are in violation of our image usage policy so I have to go back and remove them again... and yes the fairuse image on the stub template does appear to be acceptable if it is indeed part of a free collection that's licensed under a license we can use. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 00:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
btw, the image in question is the fairuse Image:Apple-logo.png and I have reverted them all back to Image:Crystal mac.png which is marked as GNU. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 00:56, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

You made no objection to the image to the left, does this mean it won't be problematic for you?--HereToHelp (talk) 01:22, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Once again, we are left to change our logo. We now have two options:

Image:Crystal 128 mac.png
 This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an Apple product, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Apple Macintosh--HereToHelp (talk) 02:00, 4 January 2006 (UTC) and Apple Computer. We need all your help, so join in as a participant today!

is the current substitute. It has a transparent background, but the license is fair use as well as the other images. So I guess we'll have to eventualy use this:

Image:Applepedia.png
 This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an article pertaining to Apple Computer, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Apple Macintosh and Apple Computer. We need all your help, so join in as a participant today!

We will use the second option because of the license unless a consensus (not formal voting) overtuns it.--HereToHelp (talk) 01:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


Actually it's to the right not to the left and yes I have a problem with it since it's fair use and it's a non commercial licensed image which should be avoided if at all possible, the images on the current templates and such should also be removed ASAP since it appears they were not GNU and are actually {{logo}} and as such are ineligible. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 01:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

You're the one who put it there. Applepedia, then.--HereToHelp (talk) 01:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Applepedia is also unacceptable since it's fair use. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 01:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

It is meant for a laugh and then to be used for non commercial reasons. It is fair use as long as we don't make money off of it, and we don't.--HereToHelp (talk) 01:49, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Besides, the copyright holder is Wikipedia, and this is being used for their good. Grm wnr and I will be happy to give up what claim we have to it (nudge, grm wnr, nudge).--HereToHelp (talk) 01:52, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes and there's two issues with that. First of all unfortunately even though we'll always (as far as I know) will be a nonprofit organization we still need to have the right open to use per ruling of Jimbo and the board (I don't have a diff or a link off the top of my head) and I've explained several times before the limitations fair use places us under both per the definition of fair use and Wikipedia's rules regarding fair use. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 01:54, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


Alright, what would you suggest for a logo?--HereToHelp (talk) 01:55, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Someone take a photo of an apple with a bite taken out of it. This is so totally not worth the fuss. -- grm_wnr Esc 01:59, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Superimpose a Times New Roman "W" on it.--HereToHelp (talk) 02:00, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

How about the following? It's GNU.--HereToHelp (talk) 02:04, 4 January 2006 (UTC) Update:It was the Macintosh 128k, but it took forever to load so I took it out. The blank template is probably what we'll wind up with. (sigh)--HereToHelp (talk) 02:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an article pertaining to Apple Computer, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Apple Macintosh and Apple Computer. We need all your help, so join in as a participant today!

It's good enough for the time being (imo), but I will try to get that photo. I'll carve the "W" into it :) -- grm_wnr Esc 02:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, except that Applepedia just got deleted. I'l update the news... Make sure you have a transparent background!--HereToHelp (talk) 02:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Nah, it's just the image server being shaky again. Deleting an image nukes the description page as well. When it gets better, the 128K should be usable again too. -- grm_wnr Esc 02:12, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Then the 128k is okay?--HereToHelp (talk) 02:17, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Between the server and real life constraints, I won't be able to participate in the lively discussion fow awhile (like a day, which is alot when people reply every ten minutes).--HereToHelp (talk) 02:22, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, here's my apple with a bite taken out of it. No "W" though (didn't have a sharp enough knife). What's better, the 128K or this?  grm_wnr Esc 22:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, here's my apple with a bite taken out of it. No "W" though (didn't have a sharp enough knife). What's better, the 128K or this?  grm_wnr Esc 22:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
128k. Especially now that the background is (my favorite word) transparent. Thanks for the trouble, though. I like applepedia or the grey 3D Apple better, but...that's copyright law.--HereToHelp (talk) 22:14, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't believe Image:Applepedia.png should be tagged as fair use. Look at the debate going on a Template talk:User browser:Firefox several images have been proposed to replace the icon, all are variations on the main logo, but are free.--

Max Talk (add) • Contributions 02:56, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

"Macintosh collaboration"?

I've been thinking that it might be helpful to start a Wikipedia:Macintosh collaboration. This would mostly be the improvement focus under a new name, but it would

  • standardize the name so people know what we mean by "improvement focus",
  • allow us to branch beyond the Wikiproject, and
  • allow us to put the collaboration on {{COTWs}} and the Comunity Portal and advertise about us and the Wikiproject.

It would be open ended rather thanon a time limit, the goal being (like the focus) to not leave an article without an FAC. If anyone disagrees, though, we can change this aspect. If we can do a portal, why not this?--HereToHelp (talk) 14:50, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Good idea, lets go for it. — Wackymacs 16:33, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Alright!--HereToHelp (talk) 20:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

The "Manual of Style" from Apple

The 2006 Apple Style Guide, something tells me that this could be a very good resource for this project...PaulC/T+ 09:07, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

  • That's cool, interesting that Apple has made this guide. — Wackymacs 09:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
  • With the Collaboration techinically now unaffiliated with the WikiProject, we need something to justify our existance. Yes, we're not exactly on AFD yet, but it's always nice to do more. So we live up to our goal to "improve and standardize" the pages we work on. I think it's a great idea.--HereToHelp (talk) 13:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

New Navigation template

I completely redid the {{Apple software}} template. It is quite a dramatic change, but since nothing linked there, I didn't think it would be a problem. I modelled it after the hardware template, (in fact, I copied the code.)--Max ( ☏ | ✒ )

  • I have started adding this template to all the articles it links to, I also changed it a little bit and added discontinued Apple software. The pro articles still need doing, and some others. — Wackymacs 08:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I dunno about this. My idea for it was to be like the hardware template, where we only have recent hardware.--Max Talk (add) • Contributions 03:04, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

May I join?

May I please join WikiProject Macintosh? I am a noobie to Wikipedia and WikiProjects, but I work with Macs and know a bit about them. If it is ok, how can I join? MathStatWoman 09:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Very annoying!

Can someone come up with a better way of posting about the project than the discussion page? I keep getting all excited to see "comments" in an article I wrote, only to find a boilerplate tag. Grrrrr. Maury 22:49, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

That is something you would have to take up with the MediaWiki people. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 02:05, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

iTunes or ITunes, iWorks or IWorks, etc.

There’s a discussion and straw poll at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(trademarks)#Trademarks_that_don't_begin_with_a_capital_letter about the capitalisation of trademarks, particularly at the beginning of a sentence. This could mean iTunes, etc., will sometimes be written ITunes. Make your views known ;-) Barefootguru 18:11, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

starter code

I've made some rough starter code for Apple OSX articles here. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 06:58, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

{{mac-soft-stub}}

I've proposed {{mac-soft-stub}} here. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 12:00, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project

Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? Please post your suggestions here. Cheers, Shanel 20:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

If anyone wants to add anything, go ahead. Also, the difference between B-class and GA-class are arbitrary; if any project member disagrees with me you can switch stuff around.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 00:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I've gone through and updated the list. Many of these have no sources to speak of; yet are (as far as I can tell) accurate. Of course, 1.0 is still way off and we can improve these in the meantime. (In fact, we might have to focus on getting sources before any specific article!)--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 02:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't know where to classify them but HFS and HFS+ are very accurate and have a lot of sources. —Claunia 16:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

We should also add Mac OS X Server to the list. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:27, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

A lot of the article is just links and lists. I say C-class.--HereToHelp 02:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
As for HFS and HFS+, they don't look well sourced to me. Images would be nice. I say C-class for those, too (apparently we already got the really good ones). —Preceding unsigned comment added by HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 02:35, 21 March 2006

I added Apple Computer to A-class... I feel like the iTunes Music Store should be up there someplace as well. PaulC/T+ 14:57, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Wow, thanks for compiling the list! I've copied your assessment of FA, A-Class and B-Class articles to the WikiProject's section in the Science WikiProjects' listing. Feel free to keep it up to date when you consider articles have improved. Thanks! Titoxd(?!? - help us) 23:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added assessment functions to the project banner. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

{{mac-game-screenshot}}

I've made a new copyright template, {{mac-game-screenshot}}. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 01:31, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

It's been nominated for deletion here. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

How to guides

I've started a how to guide for this project, Wikipedia:WikiProject Macintosh/How to upload icons. It's quite poor at this point, your input is wanted! Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 08:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

To split or not to split?

User:Angelic Wraith and me are currently discussing on Talk:Power Macintosh G3 whether the article should be split into two (beige and blue&white). I'm in favor of the split; Angelic Wraith prefers the page as it is now. The result of this discussion could also possibly affect other articles that cover various distinct models with one name that are presently combined into one article (like iMac), so it would be great to have a wider audience and more views. -- grm_wnr Esc 11:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I say keep them together. The exterior changed but not anything major inside. Furthermore, never use the "&" character (I can't find where, but it says so in the manual of style).--HereToHelp 21:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Jobs's racism?

Some newbie (and possibly vandal) added a paragraph to Steve Jobs about how he has been descriminate against minorities. However, he didn't find any sources, so I reverted him on grounds of POVing. But he reverted me back (that link isolates the paragraph) blaming me for having POV issues in favor of Jobs. I'm asking for an informal mediator because this isn't your average "blanking" or "nonsense" vandal.--HereToHelp 21:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Updated news section and requested semi-protection

I copy and pasted the news from the template into the news section of the main WikiProject page, because the WikiProject news section was rather outdated. Also, I've requested semi-protection for the Apple Macintosh page.

--BDWill Talk Contribs 06:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Semi-protection? Now? Why? -- grm_wnr Esc 14:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Grm_wnr, it is much too late for semi-protection now. Maybe in January when this article was featured it would have been appropriate, but now it isn't. — Wackymacs 15:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
All the news is old. This prject is hanging on the edge of inactivity. What we need is a really good Mac Collaboration and get things moving again. What about iMac or iTunes—something we all know about? In fact iTunes sounds better; some of us use minis or laptops.--HereToHelp 20:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Standard naming format for articles on built-in software

What is the standard naming format for articles on built-in software? So far I have seen Exposé (Mac OS X) and Dashboard (software) - we should probably agree on a format for this, and accordingly adjust these article names. My vote is on Mac OS X. What does everyone else think?

Cheers,

TDS (talk • contribs) 20:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

The question here is whether to treat Dashboard as an application or a feature of the operating system - in this case, it's a debatable matter. I would support the "(software)" disambiguation for applications, and the "(Mac OS X)" disambiguation for features. "Preview (software)" is clearly an application, for example, and so I think the disambiguation is okay in this case. Actually, I like the style of Safari (web browser) best, which is a bit more specific than usual, but Safari (Mac OS X) sounds just wrong to me. To sum it up, I'd decide this on a case by case basis. Here's a list of all disambiguated links from {{Mac OS X}}:

Oh, and welcome back, TDS ;) -- grm_wnr Esc 18:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Adopting The Apple With A Bite Taken Out Of It as a project award

Over at Wikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals/Proposed Changes, people are reorganizing the personal user awards. They seem to care a lot about whether awards are personal or project-based, and identified the AWABTAOI as a project award. I told them that it's my personal thing so far, but if the project wants to adopt this everybody should head over there and tell them. I don't care much either way. -- grm_wnr Esc 18:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

MSRP for older machines

On Macintosh IIci I noticed an MSRP of $8800, which seemed ridiculously higher than I remembered, but it seemed everything that Google found agreed. In my closet of things that should have been thrown away long ago :-), I found a Summer 1990 Mac buyer's guide that listed $6369. But I'm not really keen on a secondhand source like that - is there an authoritative source that we should use? Also, prices can change, and there are different configs; is there a rule that people use, like "introduction msrp for cheapest config"? Stan 01:00, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

P.A. Semi

You may have seen these news, which could be used to update articles such as Apple Intel transition. P.A. Semi does not even have a page yet. Their website.

Samsara (talk • contribs) 20:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

New article add

As someone note really part of WikiProject Macintosh, but wishing to make the community aware of the page I started, I would just like to suggest you take Comparison of MacBook and MacBook Pro under your care. It probably needs double-checked and expanded. --AlanH 16:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Headsup!

I don't know if you're aware or not, but since I feel WikiProjects ought to be taking the lead on issues like this: Template:Applecomputer is up for deletion. You might want it deleted, again I don't know, but I thought you should at least know about it :) --kingboyk 19:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Star Trek

Hello,

I have noticed that the Star Trek project is not noted on any timeline. It was an important step for Macinstosh in the x86 market.

Actually it was a deadend, completely different codebases involved. Stan 22:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I would agree but it was still a step and it proved to Apple it was possible to go to x86

OmniDazzle up for deletion

OmniDazzle has been listed for deletion. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 23:00, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

wikipedia 1.0

Should we create a Wikipedia 1.0 page for the mac project? Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 04:19, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Apple Computer deterioration...

The Apple Computer article was recently delisted from both WP:GA and WP:V0.5 due to lack of references. Please help out by adding references and standardizing existing ones. PaulC/T+ 21:38, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

itpc://

does anyone know anything about the itpc:// protocol? I can find shit all about it on google. I think it is an iTunes specific protocol for podcasting but i can't find any other technical info about it. Anyone here know anything? We don't have an article on it yet and since i think it is mac related i thought i would raise it here. The bellman 03:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Try here and especially here. ww2censor 04:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Icons for mac games, significant or not?

There is a debate going on at Talk:Dark Castle regarding the allowed use of game icons, from interpreting {{Game-icon}} and WP:FUC. This is mostly a Mac issue because retro games for other platforms do not have any icons. It could set a precedent for icon use in all game articles, please have a look and leave your comments! Arru 20:14, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Themes

There doesn't seem to be much coverage of theming. I put a note on the Appearance Manager talk page. —pfahlstrom 05:42, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

New iPod-related article

I'm not a member of the project, so I didn't really want to put the {{macprojectarticle}} template for it on the talk page, but I figured you guys would want to take a look at iPod sharing, an article I just created about the recent (if scattered) trend of people briefly switching iPod jacks to listen to others' music. It was covered in Wired about three years ago and such, and apparently is relatively common on select college campuses, so I figured it was notable enough for Wikipedia. And if nothing else, kind of interesting in and of itself. ;) Have at it, folks! Runa27 05:03, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Apple Developer Tools

Um, where was the discussion for merging a bunch of articles into Apple Developer Tools? Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Right here. If I thought there was any chance that these articles would ever be expanded beyond their single or double paragraph stubbiness I wouldn't have merged them. AlistairMcMillan 21:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Looks like a list now. I'd prefer them separate, with a category listing them all. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 13:33, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Infobox file format

{{Infobox file format}} has been updated with a parameter for Uniform Type Identifiers. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 15:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of which, I need help expanding the Uniform Type Identifier article. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 11:26, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

mac-software-screenshot and Apple II software?

I noticed today that Image:Appleworks.gif (a screenshot of the Apple II version of AppleWorks) is tagged with the mac-software-screenshot license template. This doesn't seem quite right (an Apple II isn't a Mac), but I thought I'd check in here and see if there were opinions or a decision somewhere before I changed it to the generic software-screenshot template. I doubt there will be enough Apple II software screenshots uploaded to warrant it having its own template. -- Hawaiian717 00:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Unless it was emulated on a Mac, then go ahead. As for the article it's in, the Apple II AppleWorks should be a separate article. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I would argue that even if it were emulated, since no part of the emulation software is visible, it still would not be appropriate to tag it as Mac software. Consider Virtual PC or Parallels Desktop running Windows on top of Mac OS X. If the screenshot included the VPC/Parallels window, then I would say it would be appropriate to tag it as Mac software. If, however, the screenshot was cropped so only the Windows applications were visible, then I would tag it as Windows software. If the article is split, I would suggest AppleWorks (Apple II) as a less awkward title. -- Hawaiian717 15:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
It was emulated, but you're right. Generic would be better. I'll change it. -- Jrc 22:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Mac OS and Mac OS X categories?

I'm wondering if we should split the software categories into Mac OS software and Mac OS X software categories? My argument is since that X is a completely different OS software should be categorized accordingly. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by CyberSkull (talk • contribs) 20:07, September 21, 2006

You don't have to apply that template to yourself...a few minutes of time code doesn't matter...but I agree with the proposal. Still, they should be linked together by see alsos or whatever.

I've done most of the articles. All that's needed is the fine grain work (200-2003 is sometimes hard to distinguish). Also, the games need a good looking over. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 01:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Common Unix Printing System

Common Unix Printing System is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 14:38, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 00:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)