Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle-earth/things to do

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WikiProject Middle-earth Open Tasks

Here are some open tasks for WikiProject Middle-earth. Feel free to help with any of the following tasks:

Collaboration: Return Middle-earth to featured status
Cleanup: Anglachel, List of Hobbits, List of hobbit families, Samwise Gamgee, Saruman, Yearbook of Tuckborough
Copyedit/extensive work: Círdan, Elf (Middle-earth), Peregrin Took, Meriadoc Brandybuck
Create: J. R. R. Tolkien: A Descriptive Bibliography, Horus Engels, Inger Edelfeldt, Kay Miner
Expand to separate pages/list entries: Alliterative verse by J. R. R. Tolkien, Art inspired by J. R. R. Tolkien, Nellas
Stubs: Old Man Willow, The Lord of the Rings: A Reader's Companion, Tolkien Studies, Images of Middle-Earth
Add secondary sources: Númenor, Moria (Middle-earth)
Articles on current topics (may need updating): The History of The Hobbit, The Hobbit (2009 film)
Merge into: Minor places in Middle-earth, Minor places in Beleriand
Other: See the Things to do page, update a Random article (reset) , or review recent Middle-earth changes


This is the compilation of all tasks for participants to do for the past, present and future.

For an example on the direction of this page, please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Star Wars/things to do and Wikipedia:WikiProject Final Fantasy/things to do!

Shortcut:
WP:Me Ttd

Thing(s) to remember:

  • If a task is completed, do NOT delete it, but strike it. This page will be archived if full.

Contents

[edit] Archives

None.

[edit] Requests

[edit] Babel

In the past I have tried to set up Babel userboxes for Sindarin, but only succeeded in making a big mess of it. Is anyone willing/able to take on this task? ▫ Urbane Legend talk 09:25, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

It would require the creation of Template:User sjn (as per ISO 639-3) and Template:User sjn-1 to Template:User sjn-5, possibly also Template:User sjn-0; with 'This user speaks Sindarin at a foo level' in Sindarin, with 'foo' for all the separate levels. Since I qualify as below a functional sjn-1 I can't do this. -- Jordi·✆ 13:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Is it possible for anyone to speak Sindarin at level 5? With the partial incompleteness of Sindarin (as all Tolkien's languages are incomplete) I would think it impossible to speak or even write/read at level 5. Of course, I may be wrong as I am not that knowledgeable in Tolkien's languages (yet). If I am wrong please correct me. --Merond e 10:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree. While there has been alot of research on Sindarin and resulting theories about its structure I'd say that the current upper limit is about 3. Nobody knows Sindarin at a 'near native' level of 4 - even with speculative expansions incorporated. We might get there eventually as more unpublished language samples are released, but probably not. I'm somewhere around a 'low 2'. If no one else wants to take a go I'll piece something together and run it past a few linguists I know. --CBD 11:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
What about "This man speaks Edhellen": Dîr pêd i lam edhellen? I hope I got everything correct... quite sure about the '(he) speaks elvish language' bit but I am not sure if dîr ("man" of any race, closest we have to "person") takes a suffix here. Edhellen is of course the "native" name for Sindarin. -- Jordi·✆ 11:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Template:User sjn-1 and Template:User que-1 now exist. -- Jordi·✆ 09:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article-related Tasks

[edit] Creation

[edit] Misc.

Both linked from The Rivers and Beacon-Hills of Gondor; probably just needing appropriate redirects. --Fang Aili talk 00:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Texts by Tolkien

I think there are articles for most of these, but some may still be missing. I've listed one that I couldn't find, but maybe I am looking in the wrong place? Carcharoth 11:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Guide to the names in The Lord of the Rings
Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings redirects to Translations of The Lord of the Rings, which has a brief description of it (and the newer version Nomenclature of The Lord of the Rings). (You'd wish the Go button would be a bit more forgiving about capitalization!) Elphion (talk) 02:32, 30 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Books

The academic books seem OK. I'm not so sure about an article just about the Weapons and Warfare book. Seems like overkill to me. If you let that in, then a lot more has to come in as well. An article generally covering the "books for the film" might be acceptable - though probably better as a "film merchandising" section of one of the films articles. I'm less sure about the books parodies, as Bored of the Rings has an article already. Maybe something in that article redirecting to the "parodies" section here would be best, and adding details there. Carcharoth 21:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Agree that we shouldn't have the Weapons and Warfare article. --Fang Aili talk 02:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Award winners: Over on my talk page, Carcharoth and I have been discussing criteria for which Tolkien reference works should have their own articles. We suggest that any JRRT nonfiction book that won the Mythopoeic Scholarship Award for Inklings Studies or a Hugo, etc., is probably a candidate for an article. Let's use the Template:Infobox Book for these as they grow out of stub class.

Here's the list of Mythopoeic award winners Carcharoth posted there for which we do not have articles:

Stub created, needs something on the significance of this edition. - PKM 03:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Tolkien and the Great War: The Threshold of Middle-earth by John Garth
  • War and the Works of J.R.R. Tolkien by Janet Brennan Croft (she is also the current editor of Mythlore, should be linked if/when someone writes a bio)

-- PKM 22:47, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Less significant books? The article on Buffy studies has an interesting approach to listing books under a topic - would this work (without links) as a format for listing works that do not merit a full article? - PKM 19:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Journals

[edit] Artists

I changed a few things, but it is a good start. Short, but still informative. How about doing the same sort of thing for the other artists listed above? Carcharoth 16:40, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Frank Frazetta did some Tolkien-inspired art. Here's a collection of all known LOTR works by Frazetta: [[1]]

[edit] Topics

Magic (Middle-earth) - because there's one for Magic (Harry Potter).

I'd suggest Magic (Middle-earth) is best, though this is an extremely difficult subject to cover... Carcharoth 20:36, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I think that would be a good topic to make an article about, but pinning down magic on Middle-Earth is rather difficult. It seems to me that the elves, maiar, and the valar all posses the ability to use magic, but at drastically different levels. For example, Galadriel tele-converses (for lack of a better phrase) with the Fellowship after they leave Moria, the Balrog is enveloped in fire and can manipulate it in various ways, and much more. Making a page on magic in middle-earth is definitely possible, it just needs a bit of planning beforehand. --Nitin.viswanathan 16:21, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, it would be very difficult to write this without jumping deep into original research. Magic is the underlying difference between Middle-earth and the real world, but it is virtually nowhere "visible" (outside of 'The Hobbit', of which the canonicity is questionable at best. I have made an attempt at the article several times and each time got nowhere. -- Jordi·✆ 07:20, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Did my best and wrote an initial draft. Probably needs heavy revising. -- Jordi·✆ 08:14, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


Somebody should go in and touch up for professionality and more meat Randalllin 04:52, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Silmarillion (disambiguation) - something to explain the differences between 1977 Silmarillion and the term Silmarillion used to refer to the wider body of stories, later published in HoME. Currently, the page is a redirect to "The Silmarillion" (about the 1977 book). Should there be a disambiguation page at Silmarillion or is there a better way to do this? Most readers will only want the article about the 1977 book, so that should probably stay at "Silmarillion", with a hatnote to redirect people looking for the in-depth article. Carcharoth 21:19, 11 April 2006 (UTC) - Added a hatnote to Silmarillion --FlamingSilmaril 22:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Avallónë - Moved from Avallonë Bryan 08:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Half-orc (Middle-earth) — For the "Half-orcs", "goblin-men", "Men-orcs", "Orc-men", etc., also whether Uruk-hai were human/orc hybrids, and thus indentifiable with some of the the above terms (there's a half-orc article for Dungeons and Dragons). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 222.126.73.172 (talk • contribs) .
Not needed in my opinion. Uruk-hai as "Half-orcs" is a Jacksonism, and the references to "Men-orcs" & "Orc-men" are best discussed in the existing Orc article. Middle-earth does not have an AD&D-like Half-Orc race. -- Jordi·✆ 08:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I think the editor was referring to Saruman's hybrids; "half-orcs and goblin-men" is a phrase that appears in The Two Towers, and doesn't Treebeard imply that Saruman's Uruks have Mannish blood? In Jackson, Uruk-hai were bred from "Orcs and goblin-men". Uthanc 09:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Frodo Lives! phenomenon, for thoe who can remember. Uthanc 05:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scholars

  • Verlyn Flieger Stub created, please review and classify. - PKM 04:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Michael D. C. Drout Stub created. - PKM 19:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Douglas A. Anderson - I made a stub for this. Need ISBNs for all the publications, and I defer to someone with more tenure on the Middle-earth project to classify this article. Also have not been able to track down a birthdate. - PKM 18:38, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
  • John D. Rateliff
  • Julian C. Bradfield
  • Helge Fauskanger
  • Lisa Star
  • Richard E. Blackwelder - I have the references for this, will try to get to it shortly if no one beats me to it. - PKM 19:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Done! What class would you assign? - PKM 19:36, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for this, and the other ones. I'm not 100% convinved of the notability of the other ones listed here. Rateliff is about to publish a book on the history of The Hobbit, and Fauskanger might be as notable as Hostetter, but I think the relative notability of the language scholars is a can of worms best left unopened. I suggest a mention in a section for each of them - kind of like a merged overview article on Tolkien linguistic scholarship. BTW, good job on the categorising of the articles, and putting the relevant WP tags on them, especially the WP:BLP tag. Could you rate them all as class=start, for now, and importance=mid (I put Tom Shippey in mid-importance, and I don't think any scholars worth an article should go lower than that). Carcharoth 20:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, missed this comment. It was easy to get the tags right - I used the Shippey article as my template <grin>. I agree on the linguistic scholars, but I may not be the right person to write it. Will tag the articles as you request. - PKM 19:06, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Publishers

  • Rayner Unwin Finished a while ago. Does anyone know why someone added a NPOV to it? Someone else removed it, but I'm rather confused. --Editor at Large 21:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I think someone might have read the review of the Hobbit by Unwin, and thought one of the wikipedia members wrote it as their own... But good job on that! FlowerSniffer 10:02, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Milton Waldman

[edit] Societies

[edit] Adaptations

  • The Lord of the Rings (musical) - premiered in Toronto, Canada, 23 March 2006 - Was planning to do smth for this but sadly i don't have the time, i put two links in the discussion, and also just wanted to say that the info on the net is contradictory about the facts of the musical. FlowerSniffer 15:27, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

*The Lord of the Rings (symphony) - touring concert symphony composed by Howard Shore stub created expansion needed--Randalllin 20:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion

  • Morwen
  • Old Man Willow - now has some comments on Willows in myth and folklore, some links to other relevant Wikipedia entries and some external links. Could use a picture - Hildebrandt? Abdullahazzam
Good job, and I formatted the article. Any information that is that particularly relevant to Tolkien's legendarium should be placed under a section called Trivia. Also, the 'see also' links should be kept to a minimum, as well as external links — since Wikipedia tries to maintain itself into not turning into a link directory. However, glad to have you in the effort, and I think it needs more expansion in its Biography, rather than in links and pictures. But if the Old Man Willow's biography/role in the books can be expanded a bit to the point in The Thain's Book without being "fancrufty", go ahead and add the picture. If you are using a movie picture, make sure to place it in the 'Potrayal of adaptations' section! :) —Mirlen 16:27, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
  • White Council
  • Elrond - Could use some expansion concerning Biography section —Mirlen 01:33, 14 March 2006(UTC)
  • Boromir - I expanded article. May or may no need addtional info, but might be enough to remove its "stub" status. Ted87 07:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Samwise Gamgee - I know Sam deserves a better Biography section than that. Also, it probably is needing of clean-up as well. —Mirlen 01:33, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
I am gathering all the info I can find about the beloved Samwise Gamgee and am going to make some major edits soon) Ted87 18:31, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I will too, when ideas hit me :P. —Mirlen 04:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
  • War of the Ring - A more detailed summary would be preferable. —Mirlen 05:30, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Busy working on it, but not yet done. Anybody have some further suggestions? Bryan 21:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
    • ill add some to it,maybe some events after too?mrs.sauron 05:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
  • List of Middle-earth Dwarves - Some of the entries could use some expanding. —Mirlen 03:07, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Tolkien and racism (Deleted through AfD Dec 15, 2006) - a sensitive and relevant issue. Some useful stuff in the talk page. Uthanc 07:29, 6 June 2006 (UTC) (I'd join formally, but I'll soon have much less time on my hands).
Finally joined - this article is now much expanded. Uthanc 09:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I expanded the article Iron Hills, although it isn't the most important article.

[edit] Citing (Sources)

[edit] Extensive work

Articles that have following—fancruft, copyvios, copyedits, point of view, etc.—go under this section.

With the help of a friend i got a whole lot of information written about Cirdan. And with such, I've updated Cirdans biography. (but its told more like a mini story). It does center around Cirdan though. I've kept the format of the sections by the ages of middle earth and now its ready for heavy editing. THis is a really long bio by the way and i've still got to include a follow up on him building the Vingilot, him warning Nargothrond, and minor edits. I need some other people to review this article and make changes where you find and i'll need help linking all the different Tolkien words to their link on this site. -Frosty King Feb 10th 2007

I tried to make it sound more encyclopedic, and some parts are now completely rewritten. --queso man 23:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Is it a copyright violation? Ted87 18:41, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

i think it took care of it,if i didnt change it.mrs.sauron 05:26, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

i think i took care of it,if not change it.mrs.sauron 05:33, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Added some info, changed a view things. If anybody could look whether is is good (especially the intro) Bryan 14:34, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I looked it over and the intro looks fine to me, but i would like a second opinion before we give the official ok.-Frosty King 17 February 2007.

I am wondering whether he is worth a seperate article Bryan 14:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Gondolin: A merry mix of info from the Sil and BLT2. The two must be clearly demarcated and separated.--Barnikel 15:29, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Enhancing

Articles that are generally good, but need few touches here and there to raise to Featured Article or Good Article status.

  • The J. R. R. Tolkien article is currently being considered for Featured Article status. Please do what you can to address concerns expressed on the candidate page and help make this a featured article.
  • Faramir - I'd like to get it up to Good Article status —Mirlen 22:51, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Maedhros - To G.A. status. —Mirlen 00:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

i'll get to work on these as soon as i can.man im glad i found wikiproject middle-earth!mrs.sauron 05:35, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] General work

Anything that doesn't go under above and below.

  • Saruman - Clean up and merging sections. Big time. —Mirlen 01:35, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Did some major clean up. Still going to take some time to get it all done. Ted87 21:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Put spolier warinings on all neccesary articles. I just noticed that a surprising amount don't have them (espically charecter articles). Ted87 20:33, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
  • The Lord of the Rings - Wikipedia is not a link farm. All unnecessary links (a.k.a fansites) should be removed. The only time a fansite should be listed if the article has used information on that fansite for the article. --Mirlen 03:39, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
  • Putting the {{Infobox LOTR}} on character articles that don't have them. —Mirlen 14:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Nerdanel - Clean up, and could be written better. —Mirlen 01:10, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Placing {{ME-project}} on the talk pages of every Tolkien-related article. —Mirlen 16:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Arwen - Clean up, rewriting introduction, conforming to standards, etc. A little bit of everything.
  • Dates - I noticed a lot of articles that lack any date, such as The Quest of Erebor. Bryan 14:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
  • The article on Gondolin is a mixture of information from the Silmarillion and the Book of Lost Tales 2. The descriptions from both books must be clearly marked out and separated, and comments should be included about the development and changes in ideas, wherever possible.--Barnikel 18:39, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree entirely. Has this been added to the list of things to do? Carcharoth 12:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I just created Destruction of Isengard. Could someone check it out and see if it can be improved? Also, the Isengard link in the War of the Ring Campaign box goes to Isengard the fortress. Can somebody make it redirect to the new article? Thanks! --Barnikel 06:17, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Done. --CBDunkerson 09:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Honestly, I think this article is a little pointless. There just isn't enough info/relevence for it to warrent its own article. I think it should be merged with Isengard. --Ted87 18:34, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I think it's an improvement, the current Isengard article breaks the sequence of War of the Ring battles and try to fix that with the other infoboxes, maps etc will look messy. Thu 08:09, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
  • The Durin article is referenced by both Norse and Tolkien articles. In line with other articles (e.g. Balin) it should be renamed to Durin (Middle-earth) and all the Tolkien-related references updated. Thu 08:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

Current article Merge into Comments
Damrod, Mablung (Ranger) List of Middle-earth Men or Rangers of Ithilien Damrod and Mablung pages cannot be expanded more than they already are, and they are too minor of characters to have their own page. Or we could have redirect to the Rangers of Ithilien page. Comments? —Mirlen 15:32, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
I think they both should be merged and brief descriptions given on each. Why is Damrod merged but not Mablung? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ted87 (talk • contribs) .
There are two Mablungs. The Mablung article there is about Mablung the elf, not Mablung the Ranger. And, thanks for pointing that out Ted, I merged Damrod into List of Middle-earth Men, because I think that'd be best to place information on each character. —Mirlen 23:42, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Bombur, Dáin I, Dáin II Ironfoot, Durin (all of their respective Durins), Glóin (both Glóins), Ori, Thorin III Stonehelm, Thráin II List of Middle-earth Dwarves The following characters are minor characters whose article cannot be expanded further in terms of content of information. I say we merge it into the List of Dwarves (Middle-earth). —Mirlen 00:52, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't know... maybe they will fit under Kings of Durin's folk? Bryan 21:18, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
No, because the Kings of Durin's folk isn't a list. A list is a compilation of all minor characters (WP:FICT). --Mirlen 19:34, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
House of Fëanor, House of Fingolfin, House of Finarfin House of Finwë Each family article is not so much in full of content so therefore, they could be merged into one whole article. Besides, House of Finwë is the the more proper term. (And for the family tree template, we should use the one on Finwë's page and delete the {{Fëanor}}, {{Fingolfin}}, and {{Finarfin}} templates. —Mirlen 01:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm all for removing some of the redundant family trees and limiting their use to pages on the family (or founder) rather than all members. Kind of like the Tolkien estate article is the only one which includes the Tolkien family tree. --CBDunkerson 01:32, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Then we should the same for the rest of family tree templates as well, which brings me to my next proposal... —Mirlen 01:45, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
House of Isildur, House of Telcontar House of Elendil (Or alternatively, we could have all of them merge into House of Elros Look above. Although, I am rather hesistant about the House of Telcontar, since Aragorn does announce that it should be ever called after the War of the Ring, 'House of Telcontar'... —Mirlen 01:45, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Sons of Fëanor, Daughters of Finwë List of High Elves I think this is pretty self-explanatory. (Of course, there will be a whole lot merging with other articles of the High Elves for minor characters). —Mirlen 03:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Crack of Doom Mount Doom It seems superfluous to have a separate article for Crack(s) of Doom and Mount Doom. Alethiophile123 18:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree. These articles need to be merged. There is no reason to have two separate articles. --Merond e 19:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Fixed this already. Crack of doom now focuses on the Shakespearean phrase, while Crack of Doom was merged with and redirects to Mount Doom which User:Ed Poor renamed to Orodruin. Uthanc 20:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Various Shire articles (e.g. Marish) Shire (Middle-earth) There are a good number of short articles for various places in the Shire. Would it not be an idea to merge into something like Places of the Shire, there is a Regions of the Shire already. Thu 19:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I think everything should be merged into Shire (Middle-earth) - there is a lot of material for a nice meaty article (geography, history, literary stuff), but not so much that it can't all fit into one article. Also, it is just the sort of article that Wikipedia can do well, I think. Carcharoth 10:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Finally got around to doing this. If I've missed any please feel free to merge them. Thu 14:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Eärendur, Eärendur_(Second_Age) Eärendur Both articles mention 2 characters with the name Eärendur. From these articles (and the encyclopedia of Arda) I understand that there are in fact 3 characters with this name.
  • Eärendur, son of Tar-Amandil
  • Eärendur, the brother of Lindórië
  • Eärendur, 10th King of Arnor

Perhaps a single article describing all three characters would be more usefull. M8ram 19:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I merged them both into Eärendur, and redirected Eärendur_(Second_Age) to there. --FlamingSilmaril Talk\Contribs 12:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Splitting

Current article Split into Comments
Himring March of Maedhros Then merge Himring into March of Maedhros. March of Maedhros is a realm of Beleriand, while Himring is a city within March of Maedhros. Therefore, it should be Himring within the March of Maedhros article. Although, I think Himring is expanded enough to earn its own article, so perhaps March of Maedhros should be seperate from Himring. —Mirlen 01:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion

  • Marshal (Middle-earth) - Has no content, and I believe it is not worth a separate article. Better make an article Military of Rohan or something like that. Bryan 08:17, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Gorcrows: is based entirely on David Day. The subject does not even deserve an article of its own, since Tolkien only wrote two lines on gorcrows. Besides, I have mentioned all there is worth mentioning about them in the improved article on Mewlips.--Barnikel 15:26, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
    I moved Mewlips to The Mewlips and then changed Gorcrows into a redirect to that. Thus anyone searching on either name gets redirected to an article on the poem. That work for everyone? --CBDunkerson 22:15, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
    Sounds great. Carcharoth 00:25, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Ceorl - I don't believe he needs a separate article. He's barely notable. By the time I was finished with the books, I'd forgotten he'd existed. --queso man 23:09, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Remember to confirm this. There was no discussion regarding this, so naturally, like for all articles here, it's necessary to confirm that this character is non-notable. --queso man 23:11, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conforming to Standards

  • Just thought I'd put out something I've noticed in browsing a few Tolkien articles, namely the use of personal pronouns in several of them. I suspect some of that may be copyright violations, but some may just be people writing in the style Tolkien occassionally use. Could be worth keeping an eye out for. I hope this is an appropriate place to put it up. FrozenPurpleCube 05:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Legolas - Rewrite of introduction of less POV preferred, using dates instead of chapter titles in Biography, switching to past tense, etc. —Mirlen 11:48, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes... This is a totally movie based introduction... Bryan 13:40, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
On a side note there is also some unnecceasry info in the adaption section. If no one gets around to editing this article soon, I'd be willing to. Ted87 19:30, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Intro done - Bryan 13:37, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Good, but it does contain spoilers...that stuff goes in the Biography. For regular articles, you write an overview of the article, but for fictional articles, the introduction should be free of spoilers. —Mirlen 21:36, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
I've begun work on this. See discussion below and at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Middle-earth. --Alataristarion 23:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List-related Tasks

[edit] Creation

  • I think we should create a lot more lists, like:
    • List of minor men
      • List of minor rangers
    • List of minor elves
    • List of minor dwarves
    • List of minor hobbits

What do you think? —Mirlen 13:43, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Pages already exist for some of this information. See List of Hobbits, List of Middle-earth Men, and Dwarves (Middle-earth). These could use a great deal of additional work. Standardization of the list article names and styles would probably also be a good thing. --CBDunkerson 22:48, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Oh sorry, didn't know. Thanks. Okay...I'm going to put in a different format, and I'll see if you guys like it. —Mirlen 16:49, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I could provide some charts for the lists. Ready to publish atm is only "Ainur Relations" but more of these are in progress User:Abalone76 6 Septembre 2007

Comments? —Mirlen 19:23, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Adding note in case anyone missed the discussion below: list already exists at Weapons of Middle-earth. Carcharoth 14:10, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I commented below as well as on the main page regarding this topic. --Alataristarion
This list has been created and is being improved; see below. --Alataristarion 20:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

Current list Merge into Comments

[edit] Splitting

Current list Split into Comments
List of Middle-earth Men List of Gondorians, List of Rohirrim, List of Dúnedain, etc. The list of Middle-earth men is WAY too long. I've begun to format it and it'll take a long time for me to finish completing. So, to shorten the task and also for easier accessability, I say we split it. Anyone want to add their comments here? —Mirlen 13:12, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Multiple articles is fine by me, but things we should keep in mind;
  1. The 'List of Men' article should be retained - with links to the various sub-categories and an 'Other' list of any Men whom we don't have a race/nationality/whatever list page for.
  2. Whatever categories we come up with should minimize any possibility of duplication and different versions on different pages. For instance Anarion, Denethor, and others could be listed in both 'Gondorians' and 'Dúnedain'. Even splitting by Arnor/Gondor/Numenor would have some duplicates as, for instance, Isildur could be listed in all three. Any duplicates which do occur should be directed to just one list, or the primary article on the subject if one exists.
  3. A single article allows related items to be linked with just [[#<name>]] rather than [[<article>#<name>]]. This prevents having to update the article names in each link if the target article is moved. Thus, we should try to split the groups to minimize cross-article links. --CBDunkerson 14:10, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
So does this mean you're for it? As for #2, I think we should have characters like Denethor be listed in Dúnedain, rather than Gondorian—to get more specific. —Mirlen 01:58, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I would recommend a strictly geographical division rather than the suggested combination of geographical and ethnical divisions, even if many ethnical boundaries do follow strictly geographical boundaries as well. Geographical regions to consider would be (among others?) Eriador, Wilderland, Gondor, Dunland, Rohan and 'Sauron's dominions' (Umbar, Harad, Rhûn and other lands to the east and south). Some of these might be combined to reduce the number of lists (depending on the level detail wanted). Whether to place e.g. the ancestors of the Rohirrim (e.g. Éorl, Léod and Fram) in Rohan or Wilderland can be discussed, but a strictly geographical division will in any case lead to fewer ambiguities. --Troelsfo 09:45, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I see two problems with geographic divisions; first, mass relocations such as the Numenoreans and Rohirrim (and Noldor if we try to extend this to Elves) would put them in two different categories and second, it would cause Aragorn, Barliman Butterbur, and Bill Ferny to wind up on the same page together. I like one big list with everyone because it can be linked to from smaller 'list of notable Numenoreans (or whatever)' in the individual articles and avoids these classification issues. However, it isn't that big a deal to me. Whatever works. --CBDunkerson 12:12, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Wow, this discussion is getting big. Yeah, I don't think the geographic divisions will work. Wait, so, CBD, you're saying that we could create the cultural/subracial divisions to link to the big general list? Sort of confused there. But I don't think splitting into different subraces will be a problem, The Thain's Book had it done that way without problems, which you can see here. —Mirlen 00:09, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
How about having the following divisions:
  • Numenorean (including Gondor, Arnor)
  • First Age Edain
  • Middle Men (Rohirrim etc)
  • Others
Thu 10:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Dwarf (Middle-earth) List of Dwarves (Middle-earth) For standardized purposes, and also, we can expand more on the Dwarves' biography/etc. if we have a list dedicated to the Dwarves like we have for the Hobbits and the Men. —Mirlen 21:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
We already have a mini-list in the dwarf article. If we do it for the dwarves we migh as well do it fo the elves too. Ted87 06:02, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Any time a list of all individuals is going to be as long as the rest of the article (or longer) I think it makes sense to split it out. The dwarves will definitely meet that thresh-hold, but (for example) there are few enough Orcs, Ents, Trolls, et cetera that I think lists can be kept in the main article for the race. --CBDunkerson 21:28, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Ted, I already proposed the creation of a List of Elves and splitting it into three sections on this page :). And yeah, per CBD, so I'm going to create a List of Dwarves with the standard we've decided. —Mirlen 22:28, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion

[edit] Misc.

Anything that doesn't go under above.

Minor places in Middle-earth is a random collection of entries, how about refactoring into separate lists e.g.

  • Minor places in Beleriand
  • Minor places in Middle-earth i.e. lands of the Third Age
  • Minor places in Valinor etc

Thu 12:29, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other-related tasks

[edit] Stubs

Hi, I expanded Years of the Trees before I stumbled across the WikiProject. I apologize if I was supposed to weigh in here before I did it, please do take a look at the diff. Wanted to know if I could similarly expand the other Ages articles too, or is it too much detail? Now that I'm here, will look around to focus on the Things to Do. Sdsouza 15:41, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Howdy. No problems. Just dive in. I made a few changes on Years of the Trees. Not sure what level of detail we should have. There is also the History of Arda page and the Timeline of Arda. Ideally, we might want the 'History' page to give a brief overview of each period with links to the individual sub-pages for more detailed recountings of events (like you did) and the 'Timeline' separate for all the specific dates. --CBD 23:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

What are you thinking of doing beyond adding the top-level 'Tolkien' category you mentioned previously? From what you'd said I had the impression that was intended as an 'ease of use' category which would have the current Category:J. R. R. Tolkien as a sub-category. You wrote something about a category tree on the talk page linked above. I think that could be useful, but I suspect the branches will change quite a bit going forward. --CBDunkerson 14:37, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I've now added more comments to the talk page referenced above. As for the category tree, I've got stuck with getting the category tree into a suitable form to put on the talk page, I might stick it in my user space instead.
As for what I am thinking of doing, I am mainly considering putting categories in more categories, to create more branches on the tree. Most of the articles seem to be fairly well categorised already. I'll take a closer look, try a few category additions, and then come back here for feedback. I'll try to avoid creating lots of new categories or adding category tags to articles until it becomes clear what is needed. Carcharoth 15:05, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Some of the non-Middle-earth Tolkien category structure worked on at User:Carcharoth/Tolkien categories. Comments and additions would be welcomed. The next stage is to decide on names for new categories. Carcharoth 07:18, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Category:Realms of Aman - requested by someone, now created. Carcharoth 10:11, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Also, for further organisation, Category:Aman towns and cities or just Category:Aman cities, or Category:Cities of Aman. Also, Category:Aman landforms, or Category:Landforms of Aman (e.g. Tirion, Alqualondë, Avallónë, Formenos, Valmar, etc.). I mean, I know every part of Aman is a landform, but a non-city/realm landform (e.g. Taniquetil, Bay of Eldamar, Helcaraxë, Ezellohar, Pelóri, Calacirya, Lorellin, Ungoliant's Lair, etc.). —Mirlen 21:38, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Though sometimes a list, or summary article, is better than a category, especially if the list is small and won't ever need to be updated, or the items in the category won't have their own articles. (You then have to include the list in the category, or link to it from the blurb at the top).
A category is best used for open-ended lists, or very long lists. Also, getting the naming conventions right ('Cities of Aman' (my preference) vs 'Aman cities') saves a lost of hassle with getting them renamed (you have to ask someone else to do it). Also, rather than the "landform" terminology, which doesn't quite work, just something simple like "Named places in Aman" is usually good enough, which then has subsets as needed. Carcharoth 07:46, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Templates

  • Deletion of the the family tree templates: {{Elendil}}, {{Fëanor}}, {{Finarfin}}, {{Fingolfin}}, {{Half-elven}}, {{Húrin}}, {{Telcontar}}, {{Isildur}}, Valar, {{Tookclan}}, {{Tolkien}} - I was thinking, instead of having all the family tree templates on the character's article, we could just have a 'See also' section to link the main family page to it. It would save space, and I sort of see it being unncessary to have the family tree on a character's page when it could be posted on their main family/house article. —Mirlen 21:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I just want to clarify this suggestion and see if any one else has thoughts on it. I assume you mean get rid of the trees as templates that are shared across the various character pages and instead post them only once on family pages (e.g. House of Elendil, thereby eliminating the need to store/save them as templates. If this is the desire/consensus, I'd definitely be willing to do it. --Alataristarion 21:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Update The template for {{Tolkien}} is really difficult to read, really tight; i would do something with it but i don't know how.FlowerSniffer 10:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I updated the {{Tolkien}} template including more information and making it much more readable Alataristarion 21:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
There is already a Weapons of Middle-earth article, which seems to follow the template quite closely. Carcharoth 10:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Ah, then it needs to be standardised. —Mirlen 21:35, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I've started the process of standardization and improvement for the Weapons of Middle-earth article. --Alataristarion 23:25, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I have standardized and added references to the first and largest section of the list. In addition, I have created the List of Middle-earth weapons page and redirected the Weapons of Middle-earth page to this new location. This very clearly seems to be a list, not a standard article, and this seems the logical naming convention to follow. Alataristarion 20:41, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
What would need to be done in order to remove this template and replace it with the (newly standardized) list? Is that the consensus? --Alataristarion 22:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

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