Talk:White Rose

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Contents

[edit] Details added to account of July 1942-Feb 1943 activities

Additional details were obtained from

DwightKingsbury 08:51, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Influence during the war?

Is anything known about how the White Rose was generally received by Germans during the war? Ben moss 23:29, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Are the newly discovered Gestapo transcript copies in public domain? How does the new (2005) film compare to the transcripts? Victorianezine (talk) 16:21, 2 April 2008 (UTC)victorianezine

[edit] Ludwig-Maximilians-University

There is a small group of students at the LMU which want to rename the university to Geschwister-Scholl-University. The renaming is not supported by most of the university.Stone 13:37, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why the White Rose?

Does anyone know why the group chose to call themselves the White Rose? ThePeg 00:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

On page 58 of Sophie Scholl and the White Rose by Dumbach and Newborn it is stated that the choice of name remains ambiguous. To quote the book, it "was obviously intended to represent purity and innocence in the face of evil: it is a poetic or artistic symbol rather than a political one... Under Gestapo interrogation, Hans would say the name came fro a Spanish novel he had read..." It goes on to state that there was actually a novel written by the German B. Traven about exploitation in Mexico in 1931 and that there is a chance that Hans and Alex had read it. Hope this helps. David Le Sage, Australia. 202.138.16.82 01:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I've put this information into the article itself, too, now. Someone will probably want to rectify my citation so that it conforms to guidelines. Cheers, David Le Sage, Australia. 202.138.16.82 02:01, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


I think that a likely source of the group's name is the poem by Cuban philosopher, lawyer, poet, and freedom fighter José Martí titled "Cultivo una Rosa Blanca" (I Grow a White Rose"). The theme of the poem can be understood as suggesting that one love both one's friends and enemies (or, depending on the meaning ascribed to the white rose, at least extend the same courtesy and respect). Martí railed against Spanish tyranny and slavery; he promoted freedom, equality and republican government.

After almost two decades of advocating for Cuban and Puerto Rican independence through his writings (for which he was jailed and exiled repeatedly), Martí co-founded the Cuban Revolutionary Party and helped to formulate war plans. He died a couple of years later, at age 42, during a skirmish in the colony's war for independence from Spain (aka the Spanish-American war) and his writings, most originally in Spanish, were widely disseminated and translated during the first half of the 20th century.

José Martí (includes the text of the poem and an English translation)

Marti: Thoughts

ileanadu 22 February 2007

The 'Spanish novel' is actually a misunderstanding. Hans Scholl said during his interrogation he had taken the name from the poet Clemens Brentano, who had written a series of what he called Spanish romances - one of which was titled Rosablancke (rosa blanca or white rose). The Gestapo officers - not very educated, it seems - mistook this as being about a novel written by a Spanish author. There is another theory (cruelly hampered, though, by lack of evidence) that the name of the group might be inspired by French aristocrats in exile, who supposedly bore a white rose in their coat of arms. --91.34.15.92 20:42, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Comment (09/04/2007): the second paragraph of this section is overly long and largely speculative. If it is to remain, then it should be significantly revised in order to sound less like a conspiracy theory and more like a reasonable argument. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.152.141.106 (talk) 22:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] simple english..

Can someone please make "white rose" and "german resistance" in simple english, so people that just know rough english will understand it? thanks, --Steve 02:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The TOC

Is there a reason the TOC on this article is not the standard Wikipedia one? If it's just personal preference, I think it should be changed to the normal one. Xiner (talk, email) 17:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I boldly removed the TOCright tag. Hope it's okay. Xiner (talk, email) 22:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intro

The intro is too long and needs to be shortened. Xiner (talk, email) 22:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Obvious errors

Please note that the first sentence under "The group" reads: "The White Rose consisted of five students — Sophie Scholl, her brother Hans Scholl, Alex Schmorell, Willi Graf, and Christoph Probst, all in their early twenties — and a professor of philosophy, Kurt Huber." at this moment. However, the article Hans Conrad Leipelt refers to Leipelt as a member of The White Rose as well. Furthermore it is known that there were more members than "just" five. The German movie Sophie Scholl – The Final Days even lists more than a dozen members:

  • Death penalty:
    • Hans Scholl
    • Sophie Scholl
    • Christoph Probst
    • Alexander Schmorell
    • Willi Graf
    • Hans Leipelt
    • Kurt Huber
  • Prison:
    • Helmut Bauer
    • Heinrich Bollinger
    • Willi Bollinger
    • Eugen Grimminger
    • Heinrich Guter
    • Hans Hirzel
    • Susanne Hirzel
    • Marie-Luise Jahn
    • Traute Lafrenz
    • Franz Müller
    • Gisela Schertling
    • Katharina Schüddekopf

--141.43.39.53 13:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] publicist's text included in article?

does anyone else feel the "Legacy" section feels like it was written by a publicist? it spends a lot of time dwelling on the book, and it reads like a press release to me. perhaps this book is being over-emphasized in the article? just looking for other opinions here. ADM 17:13, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. There being no defense of the current text since your post, I've gone ahead and edited the reference to Sophie Scholl: The Final Days down to a appropriate level for a neutral reference in an article. Don (talk) 17:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Last words of Sophie Scholl?

The article on her reads in part, "Her last words were "Die Sonne scheint noch," meaning "The sun still shines" while this reads 'Last words of Sophie Scholl: "…your heads will fall as well". There is, however, some dispute over whether Sophie or Hans actually said this; other sources claim that Sophie's final words were "God, you are my refuge into eternity."' Can anyone determine which is correct? Thanks --Fitzhugh 06:46, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How they died

The introduction implies that they were sent to concentration camps and/or starved to death. This is not true. Hans, Sophie and Christoph were executed by guillotine. Karlotta (talk) 03:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] His name is my name, too?

The section on their capture states that the dropping of leaflets was "observed by the custodian John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt." Is this a joke, or a real German name? Moarbeer (talk) 03:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)