Talk:Whig (British political faction)
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[edit] Untitled thread 2003
Nearly every link to "Whig" goes to the British whig party (and there are a lot of them) shouldent this be turned back into a page about the British Whigs, with a link to the other ones. either that or someone should fix all the links (which would probably take all day) G-Man 21:45, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- It never was a page about the British one; it was a page with all of them on, rather messily I thought. If the current arrangement is unsatisfactory, perhaps Whig (UK) needs moving here and a disambig block stuck at the top - there do seem to be only the USA and Liberian ones. Morwen 21:48, Dec 16, 2003 (OTC)
OK I'll do that then G-Man 21:49, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)
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- Please sort out the links before turning this into a British page. US President Jackson is one of the pages directed here! Rmhermen 21:51, Dec 16, 2003 (UTC)
I'm in the process of sorting out the links G-Man 22:05, 16 Dec 2003 (FTC)
I think I've sent all the American links to the right place but someone might like to double check to see if I've missed any G-Man 22:24, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)
[edit] Untitled thread 2004
The Whig party is well documented on Wikipedia. The Radical party receive no such documentation. I do not have any information on their history or ideology, but I would like to know about them. Does anyone have any information on them?
- There was no such thing as the Radical Party, as I said in the [[Radical Party (UK)] talk page. There were a group of MPs in the early-mid 19th century who called themselves Radicals, who were generally allied to the Whigs, but to their left. john 18:49, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)
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- Its all been moved to Radicals (UK). The Radicals were a group of extremely interesting politicians, especially for their time. It is vital that we know what their ideology was.
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- I hold in front of me a copy of "The Radical Party: its principles, objects & leaders", written by three members of the party. It DID exist as a political party. Denying its existence is like denying the existence of the Green Party. Especially as the Radical Party had MPs ;-)
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[edit] Whigs
Removed the following line from the description of the Whig Party:
(now the Liberal Democrats)
Liberal Democrats have nothing to do with the Whig Party.
I think the term "whig" actually originates in the English Civil War period of the 1640s-50s, when it was used to refer to a radical faction of the Scottish Covenanters who called themselves the "Kirk party". Jdorney
Usually it's said to arise as a general political term during the exclusion crisis, but I don't really know. Do you have a source? john k 15:59, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, the source in "The Civil Wars" edited by Jane Ohlmeyer and John Kenyon (Oxford 1998). On page 64, in the chapter on the Scottish civil wars by Edward Furgol, it says, "Back in Scotland, the covenanters had fragmented into two groups: the Engagers, who continued to support the King... and the Whiggamores (or "Whigs"), supporters of the Kirk party." Then as later, it was a term of abuse, I think, associating the Kirk party with cattle thieves rom the border region. Jdorney
Well, in that case, add it in in the intro bit. It should still be made clear that as a general term, it came into prominence with the exclusion crisis. john k 05:57, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, that sounds about right. Of course, you could argue that the Glorious Revolution was a sort of re-run of the civil wars as well, couldnt you? But thats another days work! Jdorney
[edit] Election box metadata
This article contains some sub-pages that hold metadata about this subject. This metadata is used by the Election box templates to display the color of the party and its name in Election candidate and results tables.
These links provide easy access to this meta data:
- Template:Whig (British political faction)/meta/color Content:
- Template:Whig (British political faction)/meta/shortname Content: Template:Whig (British political faction)/meta/shortname
[edit] Over-mighty
I don't quite get the bit which refers to the "over-mighty whigs". Does this mean that they thought they were better than the royalty, or were too powerful for comfort? Maybe this needs to be reworded to be a bit more precise. --Slashme 08:50, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
- In general the article is very confused. "The Whigs" really refers to a set of closely inter-related aristocratic families who gained an unusual amount of power after 1688 and continued with exceptions (1783-1830) to exercise that power until the 1880s. G.W.E. Russell explained "the essence of Whiggery was relationship...The Whig, like the poet was born not made." When people talk about the "over-mighty whigs" they are usually referring to the Bedfords, Devonshires, Sutherlands, Granvilles, Westminsters, Norfolks, Carlisles, Spencers and Egertons. They considered themselves an exclusive group within even the aristocracy and people almost always had to be born into the group. The Whigs were a rich and exclusive set, but they considered themselves as representing or guiding popular movements for reform.
- Even as late as 1880, the representatives of the various Whig families formed the largest single group in Gladstone's cabinet. They disappeared gradually from the liberal party because their numbers were eroded over time by the various reform acts. And because they eventually split with the liberal party over Irish issues.
- The problem with the article is that it wants to make the simple-minded point of saying that the Conservative and Liberal parties are equal to the tories and Whigs. The actual situation has never been that simple. A short (four-page) description of the Whigs and their decline can be found in David Cannadine's "Decline and Fall of the British Aristocracy". 70.234.216.33 03:22, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Move
For the sake of clarity, I moved this to British Whig Party, but that may not be the preferred name under WP naming conventions. It was the piped name the disambiguation page used when linking to Whig prior to my pointing that at the disambiguation page, so feel free to move this elsewhere if there's a better name. --Vedek Dukat Talk 05:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Scottish Whigs
I have never come across any reference in 'Scottish venacular' to whig meaning 'assassin' or 'thief'. The sentence has thus been edited out, but if you cite any source for the statement I would be happy to see it reinstated.
As a term 'whig' entered into popular use in Scotland in 1648, when a group of extreme Covenanters siezed power in what was to be known as the Whiggamore Raid. Many of these men came from the south-west of the country, where the expression 'whiggam' was used by country people to urge on their horses.
Rcpaterson 02:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Country Whigs
MP constituency lists provide for the MP's party to be specified. Paul Foley (ironmaster) (Speaker) and Robert Harley later Earl of Oxford were leaders of a party that split away from the court or junto whigs, and allied themsleves with the Tories during Queen Anne's reign. Some are described as Tories in the lists. I have seen a reference (though I am not sure where) to one of the Foleys remaining a Tory after George I's accession. Most were of Presbyterian sympathy (though conforming to the Church of England), which tends to go with being Whigs. I think we need a debate on how to deal with the transition from being the Country Whigs to their joining the Tories. Peterkingiron (talk) 11:19, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Naming problems
British Whig is improper, because there were Irish whigs who were not part of "Britain" and also sought independence from England. I believe the nomenclature is also non-historic, as the term "Whig" was used without any title before it throughout the 18th century. Ottava Rima (talk) 22:48, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
