Talk:Warrior (wrestler)/Archive 1

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What happened to the desciption and history of his career? Can someone bring it back.

Contents

Damn Blanking

Stop the damn blanking! Wacking 2/3s of an article because "it's not sufficently sourced" or whatever the excuse du jour is simply not acceptable. Throw in some citation-needed tags, flag the article, and talk about it in the discussion section. Gutting an article is never acceptable. 67.188.7.78 10:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)



Never a Heel?

He was a heel in World Class when he started as the Dingo Warrior. He was also a heel when he teamed with Sting as the Bladerunners.74.129.248.103 08:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC) ALSO KNOWN AS JOHN THE LEGEND TRENAMANO THE LEGEND OF ALL YOUNG WARRIORS


Comic Book

How many issues of the comic book are there? The article only says it was scrapped in "early 1997". I found 4 different issues on ebay, including the "Christmas" one. 141.53.194.251 23:09, 9 November 2005 (UTC) I can't believe I used to enjoy watching this guy wrestler. I am sick to my stomach.

I fixed a factual error regarding his match with Triple H at Wrestlemania XII. Despite what was written by soneone here, the MSG Incident happened AFTER Wrestlemania XII. Wrestlemania XII took place on March 31, 1996, whereas the MSG Incident with the Kliq took place in May, 1996. In addition, the MSG Incident were the last WWF appearances of Scott Hall and Kevin Nash for almost 6 years, and as such, could not have happened before Wrestlemania XII because Kevin Nash wrestled the Undertaker that night (Scott Hall did not due to suspension). What actualy happened was that, after the match had been arranged, at the last minute Warrior insisted on winning in a quick match and no-selling the Pedigree, which Hunter reluctantly agreed to.

POV check

It would be good if the person who put in the POV check would say what they were concerned about. As of earlier this week, large parts of the page were a one-sided attack on this guy that was written from the "mark-smart-mark" or "WWE" point of view. In particular, treating the contents of the DVD as if its a fact based documentary of any kind is crazy. Same with the comments of Vince McMahon being treated as fact. And please, nobody use the word "shoot" about that DVD. Every comment on the DVD is a work. If the boss goes out looking for negative comments about someone, its still as much a work as if the boss goes out looking for positive comments.

There was two ways to go. Either the negative attack material could have been removed or written....or the other point of view could be removed. I decided to add the other point of view to balance it out.

The worst parts of the DVD are where office flunkies and badly skilled wrestlers like jobber Steve "Brooklyn Brawler" Lombardi and Sgt. Slaughter are critical of the warrior's wrestling skills. Also, given certain massive abusers of steriods on the WWE payroll, steriod jokes about the ultimate warrior don't work anymore.

Wow, after that diatribe you're complaining about a lack of NPOV... let's make one thing perfectly clear. That section of the article is simply a synopsis of the DVD, and the opinions expressed therein are the opinions expressed on the DVD. Nothing more. Not necessarily the opinions of the authors of the article. If you're going to continue to write here, you have to learn to stay neutral. --HBK 03:13, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I rewrote the DVD section - it does deserve to be more than mere synopsis given the controversy and current legal ramifications, so I've highlighted a few criticisms without trying to appear too biased (frankly I'm unsympathetic to either WWE or Warrior). It was obviously written by a Warrior fan previously - particularly the JR paragraph, stood out as such. It was galling to read, frankly. I don't think specifying every single recent slate of the Warrior was necessary or encyclopaedic (at least within the confines of this section) so I have removed such trivia as Chris Benoit's passing mention of Warrior - it did not appear on the DVD and was not really related to its content.

As such I have cut a lot of similar needless bulk out and resequenced it - I just couldn't find a reason to go into so much detail; some parts of the DVD were recycled verbatim which I have amended to reflect a hopefully more concise, fairer and fitting view. If anyone wishes to expand upon the content of the DVD, please do, but could you bear in mind that anything you do put in needs to be directly related to the DVD and presented either as it appears there or as Warrior himself (or a significant part of his fanbase) view it.

Any criticisms of Warrior - speculation on no shows etc. - might well be viable for a Wiki mention, but not in this particular subsection. - ToneLa

Legal Name

Before someone is tempted to add it again due to an online article poste d by Dave Meltzer, the former Brian James Hellwig changed his name to simply "Warrior". Legally, he does not have a first name. His family uses it as their surname. - Chadbryant 16:08, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, his legal name is no longer simply Warrior. He has legally changed both his first and family names to Warrior and his legal name is now Warrior Warrior. This change has been mentioned on numerous sites so its easily verifiable. I'm bringing this up just out of curiosity about whether or not this page should be moved to refect the name change. (Stephen Day 20:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC))
The one and only name change of public record occured in 1993, when Brian James Hellwig applied for and was granted permission by a court of law to change his legal name to "Warrior", in order to establish his legal right to use the name as he chose, without regard to any trademarks claimed by the World Wrestling Federation. His surname is "Warrior". He does not have a legal first name. Numerous associates (including his former assistant/publicist) have stated in public forums that they have seen his name appear on legal documents and checks as "Warrior". The domain ultimatewarrior.com is registered to "Mister Warrior".
Numerous websites mention "Warrior Warrior" because in the plagiaristic clusterfrick that is "online wrestling journalism", it is acceptable to steal content from Dave Meltzer without attribution, even when it is inaccurate. (One can surmise that the paperwork for the lawsuit recently filed by Warrior required the first & last names to be filled, and the name "Warrior" was simply inserted into both fields.)
For the record, one user has already attempted to move the article, but that change was quickly reverted. - Chadbryant 21:27, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Considering that the second name change has appeared in numerous otherwise reputable sources (such as the Pro Wrestling Torch), I'm going to have to ask you for some form of evidence that it doesn't exist. Otherwise, the article stands as is. --HBK|Talk 21:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Do you have a cite for a second legal name change? If not, the article must reflect the known legal name for Warrior, which since 1993 has been "Warrior". As stated on his own website:
I am that man and my name is Warrior. This is my full legal name'
- Chadbryant 22:03, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
He confirmed that his name is not "Warrior Warrior", just "Warrior". [1] McPhail 00:50, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Personal life section lists the kids' last names as Twain, not Warrior.

---

made minor gramatical correction to 'Personal Life' section ("he married woman..."?)


Weasel Words

I deleted the Warrior quote of "I have many gay friends" as well as the entire account of his DePaul University speech. I also explained what Warrior meant by "queering doesn't make the world work" in order to make this article fair. Otherwise, this is just a left wing attack on Warrior's political views. Accoring to the Warrior's account of his DePaul speech, he was harrassed and asked ridiculous questions by the braindead left wing students there. The Dean or whatever the guy's title is also verbally attacked the Warrior, leading to the Warrior verbally attacking him. If Warrior's DePaul speech is going to be mentioned in this article, the account must be fair as opposed to being an attack on Warrior. I also corrected some grammatical errors. Titles of tv shows must be in italics. Also, Batista mentions that Warrior was a hero of his while he was growing up. However, Batista was about nineteen years old when the Ultimate Warrior debuted in WWE. Politician818 12:52, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Few changes

In 1991, Warrior was involved in an alleged pay dispute with WWF owner Vince McMahon. Warrior had put a "figurative" gun to Vince McMahon's head and threatened to no show the main event for SummerSlam

Removed the quotes around figurative as it looked odd (and seemed to imply an actual gun?)

Figurative means, in lamens terms, not literally, but figuratively. Although quotes do throw that meaning off. Good call.

He also broke kayfabe in an interview shortly before Halloween Havoc when he alluded to the fact that he had beaten Hogan before.

Removed this sentence as I don't see how that's breaking kayfabe. Kayfabe is referring to wrestling as tho it was "real"; referencing matches which took place in another promotion do not qualify as breaking it.

The dialogue and internal monologues in WARRIOR are written heavily in jargon, Old English, run on sentences, sentence fragments, and extremely long sentences (some contain upwards of a hundred words)

"Run on sentences" and "extremely long sentences" seems redundant, have removed the former.

First, the comics act as indoctrination material for Warrior's personal belief system.

Changed to "an explanation of Warrior's personal belief system" as seemed POV.

--Black Butterfly

Section title change

I changed the section called "The WWF Steroid Scandal" to "Disputes with the WWF." The dispute revolving around steroids was only briefly mentioned in this section, not long enough to warrant its own heading. Someone tried to put two titles under this section in order to further expand on it, but it looked pretty unwieldy. If someone is willing to write more details about the steroid scandal then I would certainly be willing to change it back.--Auger Martel 11:29, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Mockumentary?

The description of the DVD as a mockumentary is misrepresentative of the actual meaning of the term, which is used to describe fictional works meant to pass as documentaries such as the works of Christopher Guest or the series "The Office".

Even terms such as "controversial documentary" with an added sentence or two as to why it would be controversial (i.e. possible revisionist history or company slant on the part of WWE) would be a more accurate term than mockumentary, which while the documentary feature has some lighter moments (the discussion on Parts Unknown and the roundtable impersonations), that isn't what a mockumentary actually is if what the author actually meant was "a documentary feature that is possibly slanted or factually challenged". User:Wayman975 3:46 PM 2006 Sept 21


Promos and Pre-halloween havoc interview

Should there be a section about his confusing promos? Also, I read above about the HH promo where Warrior alluded to the fact that he beat hogan before and I think the original person who put it there meant instead of Kayfabe that Warrior broke an untold rule about talking about past events like that because it would ruin the build-up to the match. Hogan says this on the self destruction of the ultimate warrior and claims he had to hold back from punching him because of it.

Okay, I can say this because it's in the discussion section. Hogan has made several comments about 'shooting' on wrestlers, or being restrained from hitting them. Most notably he claimed in his "autobiography" to have 'shot' on Riki Choshu in a NJPW match and pinned him. Hogan tells lies a lot. In fact, he probably actually believes what he says. While Hogan can be quoted, his quotes should never be trusted for Wikipedia articles. Suriel1981 02:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
It was well known Warrior beat Hogan before. I think DDP made a reference to it when he did an in-ring promo about how he called up a guy Hogan's never beaten, and it turned out to be Warrior. Also, it was promoted as "the rematch." In other words, WCW never tried to hide the fact that Warrior and HOgan had a past feud and hwo beat who. I don't think there is an unwritten or written rule about talking about past event since it happens all the time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.180.19.33 (talk) 16:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

Warrior is gay...

i had to remove some recent inserts that say Warrior sold his body to homosexuals early in his career. seems to be the work of 'rj' again... - penu1timate

I've seen some ridiculous rumors on here too, like that he sucked Red Bastien's dick in the gym locker room in exchange for training.


Well that has just made me burst out laughing, but considering Warrior's attitude towards homosexuals (see his "Queering don't make the world work" quote) it is doubtful that Warrior sucks dick for training. Okay, I have to go away and laugh some more. Suriel1981 02:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Well someone as homophobic as him just may have something to hide. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.180.19.33 (talk) 16:27, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

Previous business relationships

The section on Warrior's previous business relationships doesn't cite its sources. It also violates NPOV by opining that Warrior doesn't live up to his teachings, so out it goes.209.247.23.130 22:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Cite sources in the previous business relationships secion please. Also, the opinions given in that section violate NPOV.209.247.23.131 15:27, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


Birthplace

The page says he was born in Crawfordsville, IN, but I always heard he was from Queens, NY. Many other websites make the same claim. Crawfordsville, IN would be accurate, as he stated that he grew up in Indiana in his shoot interview.

Vandals

I just edited out a part in warrior web that "He is a complete nutbag and should be committed to an mental institution."

I feel people are entitilted to their own opinion but wikipedia isn't the place to vent these. At least not on the article page.

I'm only new, but is that right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thebandweekly (talk • contribs) 02:06, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

absolutely. As much as that would have made me laugh if I read it, it does fall in the category of bias (possibly libel too). Suriel1981 02:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Although it may be POV, Hellwig does seem to be a megalomaniac. If you ever read his website postings, he often suggests he's some sort of genius. He describes himself as not only a physical but a mental giant and seems to think everyone is jealous of him. The whole WWE DVD about him was, according to Hellwig, inspired by jealousy. He had Warrior dolls for sale on ebay and someone wrote a posting asking who would pay $300, or whatever it was, for dolls of washed-up has-been, or words to that effect. Hellwig went off saying how that person is jealous he will never achieve his popularity, how the guy is basically low class garbage, etc. The transcript was posted on prowrestling.com a few weeks ago, in January 2007 I think.

Also the part that said Warrior had a lawsuit against Andrew K Reynolds was deleted as it is FALSE! KEEP IT OFF! Have a little decentcy and respect for whats true. Also theres no lawsuit against Chris Page either, so that was removed.

Speaking career

I think there should be a section about his speaking career and the quotes he has made during this. Booshakla 01:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Be bold, create the section (with citations) and others with knowledge will likely help. --Bobak 21:21, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


Blocked Editing

I realize many people are ignorant and have bought the WWE's point of view and want nothing more to speak of Warrior's "self destruction", but I would like to make an honest contribution to this page. Why can I not do that? I would like to see on this page and other wrestlers' pages a listing of notable feuds.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.204.32 (talk • contribs)

This page was heavily vandalized over the past few days. The semi-protection probably won't be there much longer. If you sign up for an account, you'll be able to edit articles even when they are semi-protected. If not, you'll have to settle for leaving a note on the talk page about what you'd like to see added. --Onorem 20:21, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


Warrior Web

can some1 please remove the statement about racist undertones being on Warrior's website. this is getting to be rediculous, is it possible anymore to be opposed illegal immigration or terrorism without being called a racist by student activists on wikipedia.

When you tell a student of Iranian decent to "get a towel," because Arabs supposedly are "towel heads" or "rag heads," as Hellwig did, it is difficult to see him as anything but a racist. Hellwig's also quite the hypocrite. He talks a lot about free speech, complains how "liberals" only support free speech when it agrees with them, then he tells people to love the US or leave it (ie. you either agree with what he says or you don't deserve to be in the USA, which goes against the very concept of free speech), calls people who disagree with his views "anti-American," and threatened to sue somethingawful.com for publishing an article that did nothing more but disagree with Hellwig's speech at the University of Conneticut. By the way, how do you know that people who would call Hellwig a racist are "student activists?" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.180.19.33 (talk) 16:17, 2 March 2007 (UTC).


Conservative or neoconservative?

Frankly, I don't consider Warrior to be a true conservative. Isn't he pro-war? If so, that would make him a neocon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.109.27.151 (talk) 02:38, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

I agree, I don't see him talking about small government or economic issues.Hoponpop69 04:17, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

BLP concerns

Please read WP:BLP. Controversial material must be referenced or removed. Other material does need referencing, yes, but it need not be removed. Tag it as requiring a reference. Neil ╦ 18:24, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I have removed one BLP violation, but most of the stuff Burntsauce was trying to remove did not violate BLP. — Moe ε 03:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I have again removed multiple controversial, defamatory statements from this article, per WP:BLP, statements such as "Poor reputation in the wrestling business.", or "Warrior has amassed an extensive collection of failed business relationships and sour opinions of numerous business partners.", or "Warrior claimed he was later betrayed by a fraudulent web designer Chris Page.", and the many others, continually added in are really not acceptable, and I encourage those who know this subject to be diligent with these issues, properly sourcing negative statements, and removing those not sourced. Thanks so much! Ariel♥Gold 04:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Error

Someone with the proper priveledges should change the 6 foot 3 to 6 foot 2. Warrior is naturally much shorter than both these heights (I have met him in person), but 188cm is not 6 foot 3, its 6 foot 2.

Books

Were they published? if not, someone update that.

216.165.95.5 (talk) 19:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Legal issues section

Can someone please provide sources for the lawsuits that Warrior has been involved in? Concerns have been raised about BLP issues with this article (see above) and as such, controversial claims (which I would argue those about lawsuits certainly are) need sourcing or they will be removed. Terraxos (talk) 23:52, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The lawsuits from the mid 90's [2] and from 2006 [3] with Titan Sports(WWE) are easy to verify. What other lawsuits need sources? --Quartet 14:44, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Heath Ledger

Apparently on Warrior's offical website, he made some pretty disgusting remarks concering the death of Heath Ledger, and needed police protection from death threats he'd been receving. Is this true and can someone verify it or is it something thats been taken out of context. Masterofdestiny (talk) 05:52, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I DO know he referd to Heath as "Leather" Ledger and said that "his daughter would be better off now that the bad influence is gone". I sent Warrior and very strongly worded e-mail, and I told him HE should kill HIMSELF but never threatened him. So I don't know. The article was also in part on TMZ.com --Crash Underride 05:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Here is the link to the homophobic, and just down right cruel post [4] --Crash Underride 06:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)