Talk:Walter Browne

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[edit] Australian

Browne being an Australian was recently removed. He has dual US/Australian citizenship, so I think it should be restored. Bubba73 (talk), 02:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I wonder why it was removed? I'm glad you caught it and restored it. Quale (talk) 03:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I believe it was certainly a good faith edit. It looked strange because usually a person isn't a citizen of two countries, but I read in Chess Life that he has dual citizenship. Bubba73 (talk), 03:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I didn't know he had dual citizenship. I guessed that sometime around 1973 he became an American citizen, and in doing so gave up Austrlian citizenship. He hasn't represented Australia since 1972 (or played in Australia since then, as far as I know), so I assume he identifies primarily as American. Given that, I don't think it looks right to mention "Australian" ahead of American in the lead sentence, it gives the impression that he is primarily Australian, which he isn't. So I suggest one of these two:

  • "Walter Shawn Browne (born January 10, 1949 in Sydney, Australia) is an American chess Grandmaster and poker player." (and later in the article mention the dual citizenship).
  • "Walter Shawn Browne (born January 10, 1949 in Sydney, Australia) is an American/Australian chess Grandmaster and poker player."

p.s. Note that his FIDE rating card calls him American, as do many other sources. Which isn't to say he's not a dual citizen, but still he seems to be primarily known as an American. So personally I prefer the first option (which is what I originally edited it to). Peter Ballard (talk) 03:41, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

More Info: By pre-2002 Australian law, he would have lost Australian citizenship when he gained American citizenship.[1] Therefore I doubt that he has dual citizenship. What is the nature of the Chess Life comment? Someone else said it, or was it Browne's own words? Peter Ballard (talk) 03:49, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Oops sorry, re-reading that page, maybe it was possible, that he got it automatically. Still, I'd like to know the strength of the source of dual citizenship. Peter Ballard (talk) 03:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Golombek (1977) says "Brown, Walter Shawn - US grandmaster ... considered the strongest American player born after the Second World War. Although born in Sydney, Australia, Browne was brought by his parents to the USA at an early age and obtained dual citizenship." It goes on to say that Browne joined the Manhattan Chess Club at age 13, which makes him sound like an entirely American chess player (no prior chess career in Australia), but then he won the Australian Championship in 1968 and played in the 1969 Asian Zonal. So it's confusing, and definitely needs careful treatment. I think you're both right, that dual citizenship is pretty rare (and used to be even more rare than it is today because I think many countries allow it now that didn't in the past). I'm not sure exactly what we should say. Quale (talk) 05:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
If my memory is correct (and there is a good chance that it isn't), he won a playoff match against James Tarjan for the US Junior championship in 1968 or 1969, and in the coverage of it (or about that time), Chess Life talked about how he was moving to Australia, and it stated his dual citizenship. Bubba73 (talk), 05:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
There's a bit of talk about Browne on these two threads at an Australian chess bulletin board: [2] (in which post 3 says he lived here (Australia) for 5 years, but that is corrected in posts 25, 26 and 33); and then a later thread [3] post 36 quotes Browne: My father is a third generation American; my Mother is a citizen of Australia. So I was born in Australia but was a U.S. citizen; a dual citizen of Australia and the U.S. at birth. So I'm happy to concede he's a dual citizen, but I still think the lead sentence should call him American, because that is what he primarily is. Peter Ballard (talk) 06:11, 20 March 2008 (UTC)