Talk:Viticulture

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I hate the way that people can just delete what you worked so hard on and they dont even put a comment in the discussion. My external links are now gone, and I am sad. :(

--Msfwebdude 19:30, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Have no fear, Msfwebdude, nothing is ever lost in the Wikipedia (trust me, I have tried :) Your links are back, through the magic of the "history" tab at the top of each article. Thank you for your contributions. Wnissen 15:05, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Suggestions and structure 2 Field blend merger 2.1 Support 2.2 Oppose 2.3 Dilemma 3 Attribution note

[edit] Suggestions and structure

What a great subject. I think it needs fleshing out a little though. Varieties of grapes and types of viticulture may be a good way to go. Also I heard that there are various practices. For example the French are not allowed to irrigate grapes whereas the Australians do, and this makes a difference in production. But I'd need to get some more info on that though. Harristweed 04:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Thinking ahead, this article will need a better structure in future. I suggest: Viticulture overview, General practices, Viticulture concepts, Varieties of viticulture, the future of viticulture Harristweed 04:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Field blend merger

[edit] Support

There's been some discussion over on Talk:Winemaking about merging in Field blend there. The result was support from FlagSteward, Agne^Cheese/^Wine, ---The Bethling^(Talk) and mikaul^talk for a merger to Viticulture instead. FlagSteward 22:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oppose

Siobhan Hansa opposed a merge with Viticulture :

"The viticulture article is basically about farming. But field blends are about the make up and balance of the wine. As the articles sit now, field blends fits more into winmakign than into viticulture. "

To which I would say that most field blends are accidents of history - there were a lot in Europe before phylloxera, but when replanting they realised that they got a lot more control over winemaking by picking and vinifying different varieties at different times, and then blending the wine. I understand something similar happened in California. So it's very much a vine growing thing and not a winemaking thing, just like the decision of when to harvest, the training system used, amount of irrigation etc are vine growing decisions that affect the final "make up and balance of the wine". FlagSteward 22:00, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dilemma

I can see both points of view here! On the one hand, it could be considered as part of the winemaking process in that the different varieties are chosen and planted previously and are then harvested/processed/fermented to make a field blend wine, as opposed to harvesting/processing/fermenting separate varieties and then blending in the winery. The blending is done previously and is permanent and inflexible. On the other hand, it could also be considered as part of viticulture in that it's inherently agricultural. I think the main question here is: "Is (or was) field blending an active viticultural decision taken by winegrowers?" or was it just an accident of history, as FlagSteward says above.

• If it was an accident of history, then no real viticulture decisions were taken, and so it shouldn't form part of the Viticulture article. (Neither should it form part of the Winemaking article in this case.) It could form part of an article on Mediaeval Vineyards or such, for example.
• If mixed varietal vineyards were planted on purpose, then it was a winemaking decision, and so 'Field blend' should go into the winemaking article.

(I confess that I'd never heard of 'field blend' before reading the article. so I would tend to think that such vineyards were accidents of history and not planted on purpose. I've never heard of or seen a modern mixed variety vineyard.) --BodegasAmbite 11:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

In Sauternes, it was actually a long standing tradition to intermix Semillion and Sauvignon blanc vines in the field that they have only recently gone away from. In places like Chile with Carmenere and Merlot, some winemakers have consciously made the decision to leave their vineyards intermixed because prefer the field blended wine to have each separated. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 19:43, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Do not know how this works exactly but I will throw in my two cents. If one talks with Paul Draper from Ridge, Will Bucklin from Old Hill, or Joel Peterson from Ravenswood, all experts on California field blends I believe they would actively refute any notion that the "field blend was an accident of history. Zinfandel, which is typically the dominant grape in these blends lends itself to excessive yields, high alcohol, and little color when young-- particularly when cultivated as many of the old vineyards were when they were first put in. To counterract this tendency and make a more balanced wine, these vineyards were interplanted with grapes such as Petite Sirah (Durif) and Syrah which add tannin and color, teinturier varietals such as Alicante Bouschet and Grand Noir, and more savory varietals such as Carignane, Mourvedre, Tempranillo, Touriga, Mondeuse, and many others. Similar field blends can be found in the Pyrenees of Australia at Best's Great Western, and perhaps most famously in Chateauneuf-du-Pape where AOC stipulations allow for the interplanting of 13 other varetals besides the generally dominant Grenache.

A basic problem with this argument is that most of these vineyards were put in prior to the scientific classifications of viticulture and winemaking were really separate entities. Most people planting the grapes were also making them. Though modern winemaking tends to control more for varietal, i.e. harvest scions seperately, vinify, and then blend according to year and sought after wine-style, there is also a movement towards going back to field blends. At Ravenswood, Old Hill, and at Ridge's Lytton Springs, varietals are being interplanted again. The thought being that what worked before might work again. As a result field blend may fit under both viticulture or winemaking, but in reality it is a interesting entity unto itself, probably not worth subsuming under a broader categorization.

[edit] Attribution note

Some content in the Green Harvest is from merged content form the stub Green Harvest. Some content in the Field blend section is from merged content from the stub Gemischter Satz. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 05:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)