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The following comments have been left for this page:
- The lead is ever in need of cleanup, and could be a better summary of the article. Editors should be wary of changing the first sentence: is Virginia "southern", "eastern", "southeastern", "mid-Atlantic", or "Atlantic coast"?
- There is also the inclination to explain Virginian peculiarities many times in the article, like the status of cities vs. counties, the existence of unincorporated towns, the location of Colonial Williamsburg, the size of the Pentagon, and the rule against governors succeeding themselves.
- The culture section tends to just list things that are in Virginia, not much that is cultural.
- Transportation can show some peacock's feathers about this bridge or that tunnel, when its not all that notable.
- Images and tables tend to bump each other in the Demographics section, and it never looks right.
- Education is just examples of highly ranked schools, not an overview of the systems.
- Government tells the reader little about the law in the state
- The list of 8 presidents floats around the article without a good place to go.
- Sports section can be hard to reference, and may border on OR.
- Some users like many paragraphs, based on the location (like one about bridges in Richmond, one about Norfolk), others like larger topical paragraphs (about bridges). The article need only to be consistent. (edit)
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[edit] Comments
[edit] Virginia's politics
If you would just look at the map of the 2004 presidential election as well as the 2006 mid-term elections, you would see that the suburban counties around Richmond and Virginia Beach are still supportive of the Republicans. If all of the urban and suburban areas were liberal or "moderate to progressive" as you put it, then there would be no way Republicans ever could have won the state in 2004; rural areas are simply not as populated as urban/suburban areas and cannot supply the needed amount of voters to overtake the more populated areas! If you look at this web page [1] (scroll down to the very bottom of the page) it says that 53% of people in suburban areas in the state of Virginia voted for George W. Bush while 46% voted for John Kerry. That’s why we cannot say that all of Virginia's urban/suburban areas are "moderate to progressive".
Also, progressive is not synonymous with liberal. Progressive is a term that falls under today’s definition of political liberalism in the US. People like Theodore Roosevelt and William Jennings Bryan were progressives, but by today’s definition they are not like liberals as we think of them today and would most likely not vote for today’s Democrats. Roosevelt had a too aggressive foreign policy and Jennings Bryan was probably too socially conservative to vote Democrat in today’s world. Progressivism is a sub-group of liberalism like fiscal conservatism, economic liberalism, social conservatism, and neoconservatism are all sub-groups of conservatism.
Lastly, why do we need to mention Obama's victory in the states Democratic primary? Not many other US state articles do. Is it really going to matter after the Democratic nominee is finally picked? Why not mention McCain's victory in Virginia as well? What makes Obama more worth mentioning than McCain?--Lucky Mitch (talk) 04:08, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- Once we remove your personal original research, there's nothing left in your comment to respond to. Tedickey (talk) 10:44, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh really? And what part of my research is OR, the difference between the term Progressive and Liberal, Suburban areas still being majority Republican, or whether Obama's victory in the states Democratic Primary and the exclusion of McCain's victory is necessary? Please be specific Tedickey, there is plenty to respond to.--Lucky Mitch (talk) 14:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
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- You can only cite 2004 so far, as 2006 showed notable increases in votes for Democratic candidates, accumulating with the election of Webb. Regardless, I'm sure there must be some solid sources out there to provide a full perspective on the present state of Virginia politics. At worse, it may well need to be a topic put on the back burner until the conclusion of the 2008 election year. I'll take a closer look on this a little later today.~ (The Rebel At) ~ 15:49, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- Having glanced at the edits closely, I decided that the Obama reference should be removed (and removed it). It really serves no purpose other than some kind of recent news trivia. If its a big deal that a black candidate won in the Democratic primary, then it needs to be contextualized and stated why this is worth mentioning. Its not ground breaking, except that its a presidential election, versus a gubernatorial (Douglas Wilder). I don't believe the classification of Northern Va politics is off, either. Northern Virginia was given a lot of credit for helping boost Webb into the Senate, and Webb is considered or was at least presented as a moderate, not a liberal. The question of "much" versus "rural" to me leans towards better presented as rural. If "much" of Virginia was Republican, then obviously, the Democratic gains in the state would not make much sense at all. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 20:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
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- I'm the one who added Obama's win in the Democratic primary, and as most commentators noted, it was regarded as significant in terms of representing changes in the state. His candidacy itself is historic, as he is the first African American man who may have a serious chance at the Presidency, but McCain's is less noteworthy from that respect. In some state articles, people have added such recent information. I agree the Presidential election will be more significant, but it is just not that terrible an event to note. The context is the already cited data that precedes it that notes changes in VA.--Parkwells (talk) 22:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- If it were the presidential election, and Obama won the state versus a Republican candidate, I would see it falling into the contextual environment of the preceding information. However, this was a primary victory that concerned only the Democratic voters in Virginia. If its important for the issue of race, as I noted above, a black Democrat has already been selected by Democratic voters in Virginia for a major race, not to mention by the state in its entirety. And while I agree it is important that Obama has a significant opportunity to win the presidency, there is nothing to be gained by littering the political section of each state noting if he did or didn't win the primary of said state. Now if you want to provide information placing his win over Hillary Clinton as being significant in Virginia, then feel free to. Otherwise, you're noting something important on a national scale (rightfully addressed in its own article) on a state scale. Thats my opinion, at least. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 23:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
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- Back to "moderate to progressive", I simply don't have a good source to cite that either Virginia's urban or suburban areas are "progressive." The article currently cited is about the rural to urban shift, and says that urban and suburban area are now the Democratic "power base." I've change the sentence around this, to say that moderate urban and suburban areas are their base, as there may are also be conservative areas. I also put NoVA in that sentence as one of these areas because it makes more sense going into the exceptions sentence about Charlottesville and such. I would like to get a consensus on this (and also the big first sentence discussion) in the next few weeks, as with the closing of the last PR the article is now ready for a FAC.--Patrick Ѻ 11:39, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Judiaism
Parkwells, were did you find the information on Judaism in Virginia. It's great, but I can't find anything from google.--Patrick Ѻ 16:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- I'll do some more looking - I remembered seeing the marker for the old congregation in Richmond, and read something recently about it - then found the articles in Jewish Encyclopedia online, so at least have one cite.--Parkwells (talk) 00:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- This synagogue has a historical marker in Old Town Alexandria, Virginia. Unfortunately, their site has very little history other than its nearly 150 years in age. The marker in Alexandria, that I recall, marked the former location of the synagogue. Don't know if it'll be of interest to you or not.~ (The Rebel At) ~ 02:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
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- Thanks for the note. Maybe sometime I'll do an article on Judaism in VA.--Parkwells (talk) 14:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
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- The marker can be seen here. It doesn't say too much. Its the first reform synagogue in the DC area, but if we could find the first in VA then that, with the year, could be noted in the section.--Patrick Ѻ 11:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
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- The first synagogue was built in Richmond - I note they organized the first congregation in 1789; that's probably enough. They built the synagogue soon after.--Parkwells (talk) 12:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC) Given the age of the one in Alexandria, it was probably formed by German Jewish immigrants.--Parkwells (talk) 12:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
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