Talk:Vindolanda

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[edit] Meaning of Name

Why is the Modern Irish version of this name listed? Is there a particular Irish connection with Vindolanda? QuartierLatin1968 17:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

No special Irish connection but it is thought the name was derived from the local Celtic name. We could also add that the "Landa" part of the name may be associated with the welsh ""Llan" (Llandudno, LLangollen, etc). Vignaux 21:56, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes; the Welsh equivalent, if it existed, would be gwynlan. But does the name Fionnlann get any use in modern Goidelic languages (apart from being a name for Finland)? QuartierLatin1968 17:47, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I suggest we remove the Irish word and replace it with the Welsh. I am not a Welsh speaker but I had also inferred the gwyn part. gwynlan is very close to Vindolanda isn't it? Vignaux 10:21, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Certainly. So is fionnlann, for that matter – at least, once you get accustomed to the kind of sound changes the Celtic languages have undergone! But then again, I'm used to thinking of words like brigantinos and Cunomaglos as being Celtic-looking even though they don't necessarily resemble modern Celtic languages. This is just a result of changes that have made these words, for example, into modern Welsh brenin and Cynfael.

On the other hand, I'm not sure whether a purely reconstructed Welsh (or Irish) version of Vindolanda, if it hasn't been in use either nowadays or in the past, would have much encyclopedic value here... QuartierLatin1968 15:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I find it fascinating that we can infer the meaning of the name that the Romans (well Batavians and Tungrians) used 1900 years ago and that this is closely related to languages spoken now. I believe it is useful to give some indication of the meaning and the connection but I don't think the Irish version is appropriate. We should swap it for the welsh equivalent though we should not make a big thing of this. Vignaux 20:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Never knew this, and I'm fascinated to see it there, but should it really be right up in the first sentence? It makes the lead clumsy, and there's no reference mentioned for it. Telsa (talk) 15:26, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I have moved it to the end of the opening paragraph. See how that fits. Vignaux 19:54, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Definitely reads a lot better that way. Telsa (talk) 22:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea to amplify this and add a short section on the etymology of the name. As well as obviously giving the Welsh which is the most relevant, it is worth adding a mention of the Goidelic cognates for the sake of interest - ModScG, ModIr "fionn" < find- < wind- and "lann" < land-, and other cognates such as Eng "winter".

This might be off-topic here, but VINDOLANDA itself is of some linguistic importance. I note that the name provides evidence for early changes in the Brittonic language, because we here have -landa with an -nd- but close by we see camb-og-lanna- with -nn- < -nd-, showing that this development which was clearly in progress even this far back.83.105.29.226 (talk) 12:34, 26 February 2008 (UTC)