Talk:Vietnamese đồng

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[edit] Ho Chi Minh's Smile

I have heard that on the old currency, Uncle Ho's smile grew in proportion to the note's value. Is this a myth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.113.140.11 (talk) 06:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

What is the source of such an information? Sounds like myth though :) Pyvanet (talk) 00:38, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New coins

  • I notice that a note was added that the new coins exist alongside the bills. Is the government, then, still producing both coins and bills in those denominations? Nik42 02:36, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)
    • No, the coins are no longer produced. Only paper bills circulate. EdwinHJ | Talk 17:26, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      • This page[1] has pictures of all Vietnamese currencies in circulation. The bottom of the page does list the coin. DHN 03:15, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] xu and hào

Also, does anyone know where xu and hào come from? I'm assuming they mean something in Vietnamese, but what? Nik42 05:37, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know, xu and hào have no other meanings. Also, hào might be analogous to the American dime, thus it might not be a legitimate unit. DHN 02:33, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Bad analogy. The American dime is a legitimate unit. 1 dollar = 10 dimes = 100 cents = 1000 mills is the system established when the US adopted a currency. -- Nik42 10:23, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
xu is derived from the French denomination sou.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.1.232.67 (talk • contribs) 08:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

"Hao" sounds similar to Chinese "Jiao" and has the same meaning —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyvanet (talk • contribs) 05:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
角 (jiao) is read as "giác" in Sino-Vietnamese. DHN 05:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
both 角 and 毛 were used on Vietnamese money. Pyvanet 01:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I think the character for "yuan" (元) was also used for "dong" on older currency issued by North Vietnam. However, the modern Chinese rendering for "dong" is purely phonetic, being neither the character for yuan or for "copper". DHN 02:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
It seems that hào is derived from the character 角, which is a unit of weight equal to 1/10 of a li (市 厘). DHN 02:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
In 1920 FIC money had 角 and cắt, in 1942 there was 毛 and hào. Anyone knows Cantonese pronunciation for these characters? Pyvanet 03:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
btw, what is the origin for "Cac" and "Cat"? Pyvanet 01:46, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd guess that it's an onomatopoeia. It's the clacking sound made when coins hit each other. DHN 02:29, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

1/10 of a Hong Kong dollar is 毫, which is pronounced "houh" in Cantonese (so the article says), and hao in Mandarin. IMHO, just because a Chinese character and a Vietnamese word are written on the same note/coin doesn't prove that they are cognate, in the sense of linguistics, as we see from 元 (yuan) and đồng (銅). Is there any online Sino-Vietnamese dictionary? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 21:08, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Requested Move

This article has been renamed after the result of a move request.

  • Support move This would match other usage such as United States dollar and Irish pound and is clearer in avoiding parenthetical names. EdwinHJ | Talk 17:30, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Support strongly Since every other currancy has its country of origin before its name, this should too. MicahMN | Talk 18:04, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Philip Baird Shearer 09:20, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Support DHN 21:14, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Support Can't see any reason for the current name of this page Nik42 19:10, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

The ISO 4217 international standard defines a currency code for all internationally traded currencies. Nearly all of them are a 3 letter acronym from the 2 lettter ISO country code followed by one letter for the currency eg GBP Great British Pound, USD United States Dollar, NZD, New Zeland Dollar etc. Hence the VND of the Vietnamese dong. Philip Baird Shearer 09:20, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] dispute (5000 đồng composition)

I know the State Bank website says "Cu Al6 Ni92". But such yellow coin is usually Cu92 Al6 Ni2. Examples of the latter composition can be found in New Taiwan dollar, Mexican peso, Australian coins, and United States dollar coin (not exactly the same as US$1, but similar). Could it be a typo from the State Bank? --Chochopk 00:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps. If you're confident about this, please do change it. DHN 00:50, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
In fact, I am not. Otherwise I would have put it there in the first place when I reorganized the whole table. --Chochopk 01:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
I've flagged this one bit with a {{fact}} tag, as the rest of the content is undisputed. Jpatokal 03:25, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dong for 1,000 dong?

In modern-day Vietnam, because of the value of the currency is so small, one đồng could also be understood as one thousand đồng. - does this mean that many Vietnamese will say, for example, "250 dong" when they actually mean "250,000 dong"? Nik42 05:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

That would be my interpretation. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 05:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Usually, they would say 250 (without dong) when they mean 250,000 dong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.187.199.71 (talk) 20:17, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1 million dong

What is this (reverse)? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:17, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

According to the Vietnamese-English dictionary, "ngân phiếu" means "money order". I'll ask some economics experts at the Vietnamese Wikipedia. Thanks for the new links. I didn't know that Vietnamese currency had Chinese writing on it as late as the 1950s. DHN 06:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Heck, even the Russian ruble at some point had Chinese on them. See [2]. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
What does it say? "Workers of the world, unite"? My understanding was that in 1945 the Democratic Republic of Vietnam had declared quoc ngu the official writing system. But looking at the currency that it issued in the late 1940s and 1950s, Chinese characters are clearly shown for the official country name and the monetary unit. Interestingly, the "yuan" character is also used for "dong". I wonder why Chinese now uses transliteration for this unit instead of "Vietnamese yuan" or even the proper character for dong, 銅DHN 07:06, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
The translation wasn't that good. It actually says "Union of poor workers from all directions". I will type the words for your convenience (or for any interested reader) 全方貧工之聯合. A better one would be 全世界無產者，聯合起來!. I'm not an expert on Vietnamese matters. But I can help on Chinese. It is an interesting observation you pointed out. I believe the best translation of đồng in Chinese is 銅 (copper). It would sound weird (e.g "it's worth 10,000 copper"), but it's accurate. Unfortunately, the standing norm is "盾", which is neither 元 (yuan) or 銅 (copper). 盾 is pronounced dùn (if you don't know pinyin, it would sound like dwen), which is the word for the Dutch gulden or the Indonesian rupiah. Complex, eh? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 07:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I like DHN's translation better. That is a citation from The Communist Manifesto by Marx. Soviets were placing this motto everywhere, including their own coat of arms. Pyvanet 04:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I asked several economic experts about these notes and here's what they said:

"Ngân phiếu thanh toán" can be translated into English as "clearing cheques". Prior to 2002, the State Bank of Vietnam issued these notes with values from 1 to 5 million dongs for easy transactions because at that time there were no high-value notes and non-banknote transactions were not developed. It differs from regular banknotes in the following respects:
  • Has a limited circulation period of 10 years [the date you saw on the note is an expiration date]. When it expires, you must bring it to the bank to convert it to real money to not lose value;
  • Only used in transactions between legal entities (businesses, banks, etc.)
The purpose of the limited circulation period and usage is to limit the money supply and limit inflation. DHN 16:25, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unified dong and South liberation dong

This web page say "1 South Viet Nam Dong = 1.25 North Viet Nam Dongs", and this says "1 North Viet Nam Dong = 0.8 South Viet Nam Dong", and this says "A currency unification occurred on 3 May 1978 at 1 Vietnamese dong = 1 North Vietnamese dong = 0.80 South Vietnamese dong". They are all the same thing. The unit of the North was smaller, the unit of the South was larger. So I reverted. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:10, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

It's possible that all these pages pages use the information from the same source. My information comes from this page, which is a government mouthpiece, so I can't vouch for its veracity. It discusses the three times that the dong had been revalued since 1975. Part of it states:
- Second time on May 3, 1978: Unified the currency over the entire nation. In the North exchanging the old currency to the unified currency was at the rate 1 old dong = 1 unified dong. In the South, exchanging the liberation currency into the unified currency was at the rate 1 liberation dong = 8 hao unified currency.
I'm not sure which is the correct rate, but given the political climate during that time, I'm more inclined to believe that it's the South that's getting short-changed, not the North. Also, the fact that the writer was specifically saying "8 hao" instead of 0.8 dong makes me think that he/she is closer to the data source than the English-language sources you cited. I'll ask some Vietnamese economic experts to see if they have access to data relating to this. DHN 08:52, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for responding so quickly. I look forward to your research result. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 09:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
It appears that there is a lot of disagreement in Vietnamese-language sources. According to the State Bank of Vietnam website [3]:
Ngày 2/5/ 1978 - Đúng dịp kỷ niệm 3 năm ngày giải phóng hoàn toàn miền nam, Nhà nước CHXHCN Việt nam công bố đổi tiền lần thứ 3 trên phạm vi toàn quốc, thống nhất tiền tệ cả nước với tỷ lệ 1đ tiền NHNN cũ ở miền Bắc hoặc 0,8 đồng tiền Giải phóng ở miền Nam ăn 1đ NHNN mới.
translation:
On May 2, 1978 - On the occasion of 3 years anniversary of the South being fully liberated, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam government promulgated the 3rd currency revaluation in the entire nation, unifying the currency of the whole nation with the rate of 1 old State Bank of Vietnam dong in the North or 0.8 liberation dong in the South to 1 new State Bank of Vietnam dong.
However, according to the Vietnam encyclopedia [4], edited by a government committee of academics, on the article on monetary policy:
Năm 1978: thống nhất chế độ tiền tệ và lưu hành thống nhất đồng tiền trong cả nước; đổi tiền cũ lấy tiền mới theo tỉ lệ: 1 đồng tiền cũ Miền Nam bằng 1 đồng tiền mới; 1 đồng tiền cũ Miền Bắc bằng 0,8 đồng tiền mới.
translation:
In 1978: unified the monetary policy and unified the circulation of the dong in the entire nation; old money exchanged for new money according to the rate: 1 old dong in the South equals 1 new dong; 1 old dong in the North equals 0.8 new dong.
Thus, according to the SBV:
  • 1 North dong = 1 new dong
  • 0.8 liberation dong = 1 new dong
  • -> 1 North dong = 0.8 liberation dong
But according to the encyclopedia:
  • 1 South dong = 1 new dong
  • 1 North dong = 0.8 new dong
  • -> 1 North dong = 0.8 liberation dong.
However, in the book Trần Văn Thọ ed., Nguyễn Ngọc Đức, Nguyễn Văn Chỉnh, Nguyễn Quân. Kinh tế Việt Nam 1955-2000: Những tính toán mới, phân tích mới [Economy of Vietnam 1955-2000: New Calculations and Analyses], Statistics Publishing House, Hanoi, 12-2000, p. 139, the information was: 1 old Northern dong = 1 new unified dong and 1 old Southern dong = 0.8 new unified dong. This is a printed copy, so I'd give more weight to it than to online sources; although the encyclopedia article is nothing to laugh at either. DHN 02:09, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Sigh.... It seems that we have no choice but to publish them all. All these sources seem authoritative. However, I'm less inclined to believe that last one (everything equal). The number 0.8 cannot be made up out of thin air. It's more likely that someone overlooked and mistakenly believe that all 3 were equal. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:56, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Oops, sorry, that was my fault. The book said 1 old North dong = 1 new unified dong and 1 old Southern dong = 0.8 new unified dong. I've edited the above. DHN 05:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Pardon my late return. So the three sources you gave, plus my source can be summarized to

SVB, my English sources 1 north = 1 new = 0.8 liberation
Vietnam encyclopedia 1 north = 0.8 new = 0.8 liberation
Stat book 1 north = 1 new = 1.25 liberation

Please review. If you don't protest, I will quote all these into the article, in a table format for ease to read and understand. By the way, do you have the ISBN and the proper title of the printed book you have? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 04:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

The information was relayed to me from someone else so I do not have these books. I have requested my informer to provide me with the ISBN information. However, I think these points are moot since my source had provided me with the text of Decree 87/CP, as published on Nhan Dan, May 4, 1978:
“ The old Banknotes currently circulating in the northern and southern regions, are [to be] exchanged for the new Banknotes as stipulated below:
  • 1 old Northern Banknote đồng equals 1 new Banknote
  • 0.80 old Southern Banknote đồng equals 1 new Banknote
  • Old banknotes with values 1 đồng and above not reported for exchange during the exchange period will no longer have face value.
  • Old banknotes with values from 0.50 and below will continue will have its face value to facilitate the people in buying and selling in small values and speed up the exchange process
 ”

. DHN 05:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

So this info agrees with row 1 of the table above. What do you suggest we do on this subject? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I guess we can leave it the way it is. The stats book doesn't have an ISBN. According to the Library of Congress, its LC Control Number is 2001308472. DHN 04:34, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Currency of Cambodia?

What is the "Currency of Cambodia" section doing in the bottom of the page? Probably it should be removed? Pyvanet 23:17, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not the current currency of Cambodia, no. But it was between 1978 and 1980. Nik42 01:15, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Was it OFFICIAL currency in Cambodia? Any source of information? Pyvanet 03:17, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Tables of Modern Monetary History, Cambodia section. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 21:08, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Xu coinage

Hello, I have a question over the xu coins issued when there was the currency unification in 1978. As we know there was the 1958 Northe Vietnamese issue and 1975 South Vietnamese issue. Were these both considered legal tender with the 1976 issue of coinage or was only one used? Hope to get an answer from someone. Thanks. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 02:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Do we know for sure that the 1976 dated coins were actually issued in 1976? Could their release have been delayed until 1978?
Dove1950 (talk) 16:09, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Wern't the 1975 coins used for the south? As to have a similar valued currency in the south without 1,2 and 5 xu coins but to have them in the north is wierd. The 1976 coins were for all of Vietnam I believe. So my question still stands. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 03:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it still stands. My only concern is that, given that the South introduced notes in 1975 that were dated 1966, the date on the coins may not indicate when they were introduced.
Dove1950 (talk) 16:57, 29 March 2008 (UTC)