Talk:Veche

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  • 1. Siemowit lived befor Rurik
  • 2. Gallus Anonymus was a chronicler
  • 3. "There is a debate over how Rurik came to control Novgorod" and "Even though Rurik was probably legendary.." (see Rurik)

--Emax 23:56, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Siemowit probably never existed. The article on Rurik will be re-written soon. But Siemowit and Rurik have nothing to do with this article. The only significant fact is that veche was the most important political institution of Rus. In Poland, it was remembered primarily through legends. --Ghirlandajo 7:22, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"Siemowit probably never existed" - like Rurik. :) Siemowit is considered as legendary Piast prince, because no sources mentioned him from outside of Poland (only the chronicle of Gallus Anonymus).--Emax 12:32, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Dear Emax, please be so kind to avoid emotions lest your national pride darken your eyes. Your Siemowit is as legendary as Rurik and Polish paragraph does not contain any dates. So, as i mentioned, mixing legends with facts is a worse thing to do. Besides, in article's structure we are trying to follow it's name sequence (if you noticed it is called Veche/Wiec not vice versa. I would insist on puttin 'Rus' part first. No offence. maqs 08:58, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

"if you noticed it is called Veche/Wiec not vice versa" - because the article was created by "Mark from Moscow" :) --Emax 12:32, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Let us concider it to be a fate, Emax. Besides, Piasts appeared in chronicles only in the second half of Xth century, while Rurik appeared to be born (as it was documented) in the first half of the IXth. --maqs 13:27, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)
But the Piasts were already historical rulers since Mieszko I (c. 935-992) and its disputed how the legendary Rurik came to control of Novgorod (a Viking chosen by Slavs on a Wiec, sounds not really realistic)... You said, "mixing legends with facts is a worse thing to do" :) Ok, its not important to me, lets stop this discussion--Emax 14:13, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Oh yeah. In X century Russian Rurikovichs were already historical as well. And talkng about the not mixing thing, i'd like to point that i haven't mentioned Rurik in the article. That's it. Okay, enough with that. Good luck, Emax :) --maqs 14:30, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] A bold question

Sorry for being bold and I hope I will not assault anyone's sentiments - and this is just curiosity I myself don`t know much about the veche nor the pronunciation of Russian - but here goes: does any Russian / Slavic author suggest that the word 'veche' might be related to Finnish / Karelian 'väki' (meaning crowd, folk)? Just a thought since Baltic-Finnic seems to have been spoken in Novgorod... Clarifer (talk) 14:49, 25 February 2008 (UTC)